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Block v3 or Olsson Block

Posted: January 11th, 2017, 1:58 pm
by LePaul
I need to upgrade my old Ultimaker 2 print head to the latest improvements.

I know we have Ander's Olsson Block

And I see 3Dsolex offers the Block v3

The Block V3 has 11 significant improvements over the Olsson block - mostly related to heat transfer. The Matchless nozzles have 4 significant improvements and the Matchless Race nozzles have a 5th improvement - mostly related to getting that heat from the block to melting the filament. These heat transfer improvements are significant and allow you to print cooler and/or faster. Matchless nozzles are compatible with Olsson block and older nozzles are compatible with Block V3 but without the extra benefit of faster heat transfer. The Race nozzles are a big improvement even with the "old" Olsson block.
match.pdf
(569.98 KiB) Downloaded 72 times
Now I haven't seen any side by side reviews of the 3D Solex Product and I have no opinion of it. Thoughts?

Have you guys?

Re: Block v3 or Olsson Block

Posted: January 12th, 2017, 4:19 am
by Anders Olsson
I think you should try it and write a review! :-)

Just beware that you might not get your heater/sensor out again if you for some reason decide to switch block again.
I had to fight a bit to keep those slots on the Olsson block by the way, Carl wanted to remove them already then.

And as I explained before, I am not involved in the Matchless block at all, so if the performance does not match the advertised numbers please don't come to me complaining :-)
Again though, a review would be nice!

I was thinking by the way, should we make a separate 3DSolex-thread from this one and the posts here? viewtopic.php?f=9&t=4&start=420#p7709

Re: Block v3 or Olsson Block

Posted: January 12th, 2017, 9:28 am
by LePaul
Carl asserts a lot of things in the attached PDF above but really, seeing is believing for a customer.

I would really like to see side by side results (prints?) or even video showing the differences.

As I've mentioned previously, I work (part time) as a salesman at a major retailer selling large appliances. I know sales pitches!

I really don't feel like experimenting too much here, just interested to see if the sales claims match real-world user experiences

Re: Block v3 or Olsson Block

Posted: January 12th, 2017, 4:40 pm
by Izzy
I think Andres is right to have two threads,
I am currently running with the matchless block but haven't had time to really test it as I've a job on my hub I need to complete. And I'm not sure when I will have time to dedicate to run a series of tests on its performance.
IMHO I think in general the Olsson block running a 0.4 to 0.8 with a 35W heater keeping to sensible speeds it is fine for the majority of users and will also nor with smaller and larger nozzles.
The matchless may be more suitable to those wanting to try that bit more, increasing speeds and larger nozzles.
At the moment I'm using the matchless but at normal std rates until I'm happy it's all working fine, no leaks etc, then when I get some time I want to get a decent S3D profile for other nozzle sizes, and play with the very small nozzles.
Time is the enemy at the moment for me my studies taking up my time, and helping Sue with the Vblog of her journey as we are both learning to do the camera and editing etc. But hopefully with Sues interest growing, in time will have some me time :-D

Re: Block v3 or Olsson Block

Posted: January 13th, 2017, 8:32 am
by Izzy
Just looked at the match PDF Paul posted above.
If the main seal is the end of the nozzles threaded portion forming a flat seal with the end of the bore in the heater block, great we should get no leaks and the threaded parts connecting will give the heat transfer.
BUT if the conical chamfered area is also connecting and providing heat transfer then even with very high tolerances unless there is a soft insert seal the likely hood of getting both areas to contact and seal are extreamly remote unless one part (the nozzle conical chamfer) is being deformed to actually allow the flat end to fully contact and seal.

Everything has a tolerance (having said that, when I was an apprentice back in the early 80s we had Douglas a very precise instrument maker who was what we called 'spot bollock' and worked to zero tolerance, and you were chuffed to be placed with him in your final year as you knew you were Vgood) and the finer the tolerance the higher the cost.

BUT, the hobbyist engineer is pushing R&D in areas not profitable for companies to pursue, and with the help of others with the same mind set ( I think a large proportion of them gathered in this forum :lol: ) get feedback and testing help to develop their ideas, and then perhaps get something to market, and we need people like that. Just because it hasn't been done doesn't mean it can't be done, nothing is impossible we just haven't solved the problem yet! And on this forum we have a lot of help from likeminded, erm, nutters :-D and long may we reign :lol:

Re: Block v3 or Olsson Block

Posted: January 28th, 2017, 11:13 am
by gr5
I've used both the "Olsson" block from 3dsolex and the V3 block from 3dsolex and I find the Olsson block to be a huge improvement from not having it at all but the block V3 is only a minor improvement. It has better heat transfer but I guess I never push my machine to the limits. I mean I am still happy with the original black feeder.

Re: Block v3 or Olsson Block

Posted: January 28th, 2017, 11:44 am
by Anders Olsson
gr5 wrote:I've used both the "Olsson" block from 3dsolex and the V3 block from 3dsolex and I find the Olsson block to be a huge improvement from not having it at all but the block V3 is only a minor improvement.
Funny that you wrote that because that is precisely why I did not make any upgraded version of the Olsson block, I simply thought it could not be improved enough for it to be worth it in that very restricted space it is sitting.
If I would have made an upgraded version for some reason, I would have made it for the plus models, somehow making use of that extra space inside the new fan shroud in a clever way.
gr5 wrote:I mean I am still happy with the original black feeder.
I am using the black/IRobertI feeder on all my UM2-machines too :-)
Actually, I even dislike the way the new feeder tends to grind the filament into pieces in seconds instead of skipping like the old feeder.

Re: Block v3 or Olsson Block

Posted: January 28th, 2017, 12:14 pm
by gr5
No I mean I'm still happy without any modifications at all other than the Olsson block. No iRoberti feeder. But I *did* have the iRoberti feeder on one of my 4 um2 machines for a year and it was great. Now I have the bond tech (I was asked to test it out). The bond tech is still sitting on my most-used machine but the old black feeder was "good enough" for me. If I had to return the bond tech though I would rather put the iRoberti feeder back on versus the original black feeder. Actually I would put the meduza upgrade on also. It's not really needed but it does increase the pushing force.

I think I just tend not to push the limits on my printer.

I print many things every week but rarely run two printers at the same time. I guess I tend to do smallish prints - under 2 hours usually.

Re: Block v3 or Olsson Block

Posted: January 28th, 2017, 2:48 pm
by Izzy
I'm running with the V3 at the moment, but not really pushing the speeds which is only really for non PLA materials, it does allow swapping nozzles without having to reset the bed height, I was swapping a few this week and my test discs were the same each time.

When I get time I want to experiment with the different nozzle sizes etc, but I don't have the time at the moment. At the moment it is still looking quite clean, and the atomic pull looks funny with the twin cores :-? But works

Re: Block v3 or Olsson Block

Posted: February 5th, 2017, 2:58 pm
by stu-le-brew
I am just running my UM2 with bondtech and V3 with flexible filament the results are really really good. but can't compare directly to Olsson block I had installed before but I do feel it an improvement - very fast print speed with no compromise on quality
IMO

Re: Block v3 or Olsson Block

Posted: February 5th, 2017, 5:17 pm
by Izzy
Hi Stu, what flexible filament are you using? Also do you have a good 200um profile, and what slicer do you use?

Re: Block v3 or Olsson Block

Posted: May 9th, 2017, 7:15 am
by VitalSparks
I have been using the Olsson block with i2K for the last few hundred hours and it performs extremely well. So I don't see any reason to be messing about spending money on an alternative.

One major thing that I did however, was to stuff the volume around the block (inside the fan shroud) with glass-wool (roof insulation). This eliminated the difficulty of maintaining high temperatures with the fan on, and I can print thick layers of ABS at very high speeds (models with little fine detail) without any sign of a temperature drop. So, no need to fit an uprated heater as some are suggesting.

For example, I often print ABS with 0.3mm layers @ 120mm/sec (0.4mm nozzle 255Deg. no fan), and the quality of the parts (mechanical, not fussy decorative items) is more than acceptable.

I am using the original feeder, with the tension set half-way, and rarely, if ever, get skipping of the motor. If I do, I know it is time to do a few 'cold-pulls'. I always use Nylon for this.

Before every multi-hour print, I treat the filament with Wynn's Silicone-Lube as it enters the feeder by saturating the pads inside my trusty iRoberts snap-on duster. This significantly reduces friction in the Bowden tube, seems to have reduced hot-end clogs, and has almost eliminated filament-grinding during repeated persistent retractions (when the filament is unloaded, it is hard to see where these persistent retractions occurred).

Here is an extreme example of a print with persistent, close-spaced, retractions. There were a few thousand retractions over about 300mm of filament, and there was no sign of any problems (except the annoying noise :-x ).

Image

Re: Block v3 or Olsson Block

Posted: May 9th, 2017, 9:29 am
by LePaul
The insulation stuffing is an interesting approach

I've been leery of the application of any lubricants on the filament for my Ultimaker 2's. I have 2+'s with the better feeder and only had one instance, with ColorFabb nGen, where it got chewed up and gummed up the feeder. Since then, I have a couple hundred hours on the printer with no feeder jams or print head blockages.

Nylon is a good idea.

I never use the "Remove Material" process on the Ultimaker 2. I heat the nozzle to 220, then set it to cool to 99C. At 99C I press the release tab on the feeder and yank the filament out. Most of the time I get a perfect, nozzle shaped piece of filament. If it isn't, I proceed to do an atomic using PLA until I have that shape and a clean plug.

Re: Block v3 or Olsson Block

Posted: May 9th, 2017, 11:10 am
by VitalSparks
I've been leery of the application of any lubricants on the filament for my Ultimaker 2's.
Yes, I was too at first, but I read of many users that do it on a variety of machines, so some time ago I gave it a try. They used very light oil, like typewriter oil, but I thought that was a bit dodgy at ABS temperatures and likely to carbonise. (I tried some on a piece of metal heated to 250 in the oven - and it began to smoke!). I knew silicones work up to temperatures around 350 degrees, so I popped down to our local motoring store and found the Silicone-Lube, which works beautifully. It also vastly improved the performance of flexible materials in the UM2. I suspect this is because of the hugely reduced friction and stiction in the Bowden.

I have found it vital to use where models have unavoidable multiple retractions like the one I showed earlier.

Without it, what happens is that the nobbled surface of the feeder drive wheel slightly abrades the filament and produces dust, which normally is not a real problem (you can often see this deposited in the Bowden). However, with repeated and very close retractions, the abraded 'dust' starts to clog the drive rather than being driven out with the filament, and very soon looses its grip on the filament, and starts grinding it instead. With Silicone-Oil, none of this happens. I have now been using it for over a year without any problems whatsoever. I see it as a must-have accessory.
I never use the "Remove Material" process on the Ultimaker 2. I heat the nozzle to 220, then set it to cool to 99C. At 99C I press the release tab on the feeder and yank the filament out. Most of the time I get a perfect, nozzle shaped piece of filament. If it isn't, I proceed to do an atomic using PLA until I have that shape and a clean plug.
So, you are basically doing Atomic Pulls on a regular basis - great idea! I can try this on my stock-feeder, because I have designed and fitted a release-lever to it, which was very easy to do - particularly when I moved it to the side of the machine.

Re: Block v3 or Olsson Block

Posted: May 9th, 2017, 11:19 am
by LePaul
VitalSparks wrote:
So, you are basically doing Atomic Pulls on a regular basis - great idea! I can try this on my stock-feeder, because I have designed and fitted a release-lever to it, which was very easy to do - particularly when I moved it to the side of the machine.
Yes, exactly

The first time I let the Ultimaker 2 do it's own Change Filament option, I watched a long, long string and blobs drag along inside the Bowden tube. Some got stuck in the Bowden which required me to un-clip the Bowden at both ends and use filament to push out the leftover debris. (And what a hassle that was)

I've never tried printing in ABS since I am wary of the fumes and known challenges it presents.

I've been really frugal about what filaments I use. I prefer ColorFabb but also use Ultimaker brand. I tried some MatterHacker PLA Pro but I must have received an old spool. I always do a test of the filament before loading, making sure it does not break easy and caliper it. The roll they sent snapped apart very easily (brittle) and while it was 2.85, it also broke in the Bowden tube when I tried loading it anyways (lesson learned!)