Super hard nozzles - Test pilots

Discussions concerning the Ultimaker 2 / Ultimaker 2+ series of printers, including the Ultimaker 2 Go
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Meduza
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Re: Super hard nozzles - Test pilots

Postby Meduza » December 29th, 2016, 9:18 am

It is out in the wild!

https://3dprint.com/160091/3dverkstan-l ... sson-ruby/

http://www.3ders.org/articles/20161229- ... rials.html

http://olssonruby.com

If you want to share anything on social media, please use the hashtag #olssonruby
Last edited by Meduza on December 29th, 2016, 11:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Super hard nozzles - Test pilots

Postby LePaul » December 29th, 2016, 10:17 am

Oh very cool.

Congrats Anders!

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Re: Super hard nozzles - Test pilots

Postby danilius » December 29th, 2016, 7:10 pm

Yay, well done Anders.

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Re: Super hard nozzles - Test pilots

Postby drayson » December 30th, 2016, 5:43 am

Great news - congrats anders!!!

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antiklesys
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Re: Super hard nozzles - Test pilots

Postby antiklesys » December 30th, 2016, 2:23 pm

Congratulations!
Does this enter in the Guinness world records for the most expensive nozzle? :P

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Re: Super hard nozzles - Test pilots

Postby Neotko » December 30th, 2016, 4:26 pm

antiklesys wrote:Congratulations!
Does this enter in the Guinness world records for the most expensive nozzle? :P


I bet that one would be for Stratasys XD

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Re: Super hard nozzles - Test pilots

Postby Meduza » December 30th, 2016, 10:00 pm

Yep, the stratasys fortus "tips" (what they call their nozzles) are all in the 100$+ range, so this is not the most expensive, but it might be the most expensive that fits a standard M6x1 thread ;)

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Re: Super hard nozzles - Test pilots

Postby Anders Olsson » January 4th, 2017, 11:32 am

LePaul wrote:Very good write up

I wonder if Swordriff will respond


I just wanted to add something to this:

I think Carl has been quite important both for the success of the Olsson block and for Ultimaker as a company.
When the sales of the Ultimaker 2 skyrocketed, their support department collapsed people found them selfs stranded with broken machines and no support or spare parts available.
The old Ultimaker forum together with the 3DSolex helped Ultimaker a lot then by providing an additional source for support and components. Might not have been genuine Ultimaker components, but they got the machines going again in most cases, which was enough to make most users happy.

Carl is a great salesmen, I can not argue that, and 3DSolex started selling things people needed at a very suitable time for all of us.

Now when it comes to the ruby nozzle, I am hoping it can push development a bit further, opening up new markets and attracting new customer groups.
It is a bit like the Ultimaker 3, which obviously is much more focused at industry and customers who has the money and who rather pay a bit more to get a reliable product.

The main issue I see here is that it is difficult for the new customer groups to judge what one really can do reliably with a 3D-printer, since there is so much stuff out there which is not working as good as the people selling it claims.

As and example, E3D claims that their hardened nozzles will basically not wear with XT-CF20, showing no observable wear after printing 250 grams, or even after 2,5 kg of various carbon filled filaments: http://e3d-online.com/is-carbon-killing-your-nozzle
Users tells me the opposite though, like roboduck who says he sees signs of wear already after 1-1.5 spools of XT-CF20: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=4&p=1630#p1630

I tested it myself the other day.
From basic testing, (which I assume that E3D has done) I know that wear from carbon filled filament depends a lot on what you print, so I selected one of the most downloaded models at thingiverse (a Millenium Falcon) and used normal quality settings in Cura.
After 24 hours and just 70 grams of XT-CF20 it is already obvious that the tip of the nozzle is getting rounder (!).
Before:
2016-12-31-0083.jpg

(Yes, the hardened nozzle rusts if stored in humid environments)

After:
2017-01-01-0106.jpg

2017-01-01-0109.jpg


I find this to be a big challenge, how are we going to open up new markets and attract new groups of customers who has money but demands properly working technology when there is this mix of products and when even the large players sells things based on claims that are questionable?

One would need much more time to test competing technologies and publish the results, because just commenting that things probably wont work as claimed will just make people think I am trying to protect my own technology and prevent development.

As an example, I was not involved or even aware of the Matchless block from 3DSolex.
I would not design it the way it is designed for various reasons and I find some of the claims unlikely based upon my knowledge and experience.
I don't want to comment this though, since I actually did not test it, and I am unlikely to find time to test it anytime soon.

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Re: Super hard nozzles - Test pilots

Postby LePaul » January 4th, 2017, 11:48 am

Good information

I guess what I like, and most customers like, is real information about how something has performed. Anyone can write a review that's glowing. What about actual testing?

My background in sales helps here. I have people that purchase major appliances from me and these are big purchases for customers. They come in wanting to know the track record (have any been returned?), customer feedback (Has anyone that has purchased one had anything good or bad to say?) and of course, reviews from trusted sources (i.e. Consumer Reports, online shopping reviews, etc).

While a $90 nozzle is a lot different than a $3200 refrigerator, the basics are pretty much the same. Why is this product better? What will it do for me that my current [nozzle] can't do? Can you show me the differences, as you have in the nozzle wear comparisons.

I have yet to figure out what a Matchless block will do differently from my UMO block or your Olsson Block in my UM2+. I have yet to SEE results, just a glowing write up/description with little detail.

I'm all for competing technologies and improvements. That helps everyone.

I just don't understand some of the hurry-up and market things that really don't have much for details.

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Re: Super hard nozzles - Test pilots

Postby Izzy » January 4th, 2017, 5:14 pm

I like several others in the group enjoy the testing of filaments and improvements to the UM2, I purchased the matchless block etc in November last year but didn't fit it until Xmas and with getting Sue and her Wanhao Duplicator i3 Plus set up and doing all the videoing didn't get a chance to really do some testing.
I have been printing with it over the last few days and silly me didn't replace the i2k isolator and PTFE spacer, as they looked ok but I have a couple of leaks that I need to stop and so time willing will replace them this weekend to sort it out, but I will also try to examine the interface surfaces between the nozzle and block.
So other than the odd little leak it seems to perform well, I am running a 35w heater but not the 40W or even the 50w ones that Carl has available so I'm not expecting to really increase the print speed that much, and have yet to try a speed test, but I was interested in the range of nozzle sizes to be able to test with, mainly the smaller nozzles but I also wanted to test out the larger ones as well, and home in on the correct settings to achieve good prints on larger items.
As I have only been running it for a few days I can't make any big statements about it other than it is working and looks good, oh and is easy to clean :lol:
But I will hopefully get the chance to see how it performs or improves with the std 0.4mm nozzle and the other sizes and when I can get me a ruby again too will run that.
So at the moment my "Pimp my UM2" shopping list has 1) Ruby Nozzle 2) higher rated heater
:lol: :-o :lol:
Izzy.

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Re: Super hard nozzles - Test pilots

Postby Anders Olsson » January 4th, 2017, 6:11 pm

Izzy wrote: I can't make any big statements about it other than it is working and looks good, oh and is easy to clean :lol:


I find that rather nice with the Matchless block too!
Putting a hard surface coating on objects that are supposed to form a metal-to-metal seal is like asking for trouble (=leaks) though, so I would not dare to do such thing without extensive testing.

I could be wrong though, looking forward to your review! :-)

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Re: Super hard nozzles - Test pilots

Postby Neotko » January 4th, 2017, 6:51 pm

Anders Olsson wrote:
Izzy wrote: I can't make any big statements about it other than it is working and looks good, oh and is easy to clean :lol:


I find that rather nice with the Matchless block too!
Putting a hard surface coating on objects that are supposed to form a metal-to-metal seal is like asking for trouble (=leaks) though, so I would not dare to do such thing without extensive testing.

I could be wrong though, looking forward to your review! :-)


I have one of that shiny blocks, I can't test it since all my printers are working flawlessly (if works, why bother right?) but afaik... To solve the leak... Torque

https://www.youmagine.com/designs/block ... que-wrench Gr5 wrote there: "Block V3 needs > 1nM to prevent leaks sometimes"

Anyhow, the part that stops me from testing the V3 block is the no exit hole, for the pt100, I don't want to test something that can cost me 20€ pt100 and a LOT of time. I love the TFM-TF2K 1.75 from 3dsolex, without that I would stay still using umo heads instead of um2+ heads.

The thing that I really want to try is the nozzle with dual output, on Foehnsturm tests he was able to extrude flexibles quite easier (hence less pressure needed to push filament). But since I have 3 rubys on my 3 printers I might leave that to the um3 frankenstein (as in we have change so much parts isn't a um3 XD)

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Re: Super hard nozzles - Test pilots

Postby Anders Olsson » January 5th, 2017, 12:33 am

Neotko wrote: "Block V3 needs > 1nM to prevent leaks sometimes"


Those "sometimes" always makes me nervous as an engineer :-P

Neotko wrote:The thing that I really want to try is the nozzle with dual output, on Foehnsturm tests he was able to extrude flexibles quite easier (hence less pressure needed to push filament).


I am looking forward to reading a review! :-)

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Re: Super hard nozzles - Test pilots

Postby Izzy » January 5th, 2017, 3:36 am

Neotko wrote:
The thing that I really want to try is the nozzle with dual output, on Foehnsturm tests he was able to extrude flexibles quite easier (hence less pressure needed to push filament). But since I have 3 rubys on my 3 printers I might leave that to the um3 frankenstein (as in we have change so much parts isn't a um3 XD)


Which nozzle is that one?
Izzy.

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Re: Super hard nozzles - Test pilots

Postby Neotko » January 5th, 2017, 3:44 am

They are called Matchless nozzles?


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