Super hard nozzles - Test pilots

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Izzy
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Re: Super hard nozzles - Test pilots

Post by Izzy » December 18th, 2016, 9:30 am

Is that the 'Extrudr' 'Green-Tec'?
The Biodegradable and compostable one, "bdp" BioDegradble Plastic.
It's not 'PLA' but same print range.

I test a sample in October, in Blue, and using my default test pieces at default PLA settings I got very good results, virtually no stringing at all and great definition on all details, the Treefrog came out with a great finish and needed no post print processing, I also had no warping, and I'm measured shrinkage was 0.42% X&Y and 0.2% Z.
I only had a small test sample but was very impressed by its performance, and I hope to test some other filaments in their range, the only down side was it's price at €56 for a 1kg reel.
But I do like the look of the multicolour filaments for some larger pieces.
Izzy.

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Re: Super hard nozzles - Test pilots

Post by Neotko » December 18th, 2016, 1:34 pm

I find the price quite ok, but ofc just because my other filaments are faberdashery XD. 1.1kg per roll and prints really nice imo. The multicolored ones are just pla no greentec bdp.

For example the ngen fan cap I printed damaged and curved after a few months but the greentec still conserves the original print look.
IMG_3484.JPG

Anyone offtopic off :)

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Re: Super hard nozzles - Test pilots

Post by gudo » December 18th, 2016, 1:54 pm

Neotko wrote:I find the price quite ok, but ofc just because my other filaments are faberdashery XD. 1.1kg per roll and prints really nice imo. The multicolored ones are just pla no greentec bdp.

For example the ngen fan cap I printed damaged and curved after a few months but the greentec still conserves the original print look.

IMG_3484.JPG


Anyone offtopic off :)
Hi Neotko !
This greentec filament seems really interesting, thanks for sharing I'll try sure !

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Re: Super hard nozzles - Test pilots

Post by Neotko » December 18th, 2016, 2:01 pm

gudo wrote:
Neotko wrote:I find the price quite ok, but ofc just because my other filaments are faberdashery XD. 1.1kg per roll and prints really nice imo. The multicolored ones are just pla no greentec bdp.

For example the ngen fan cap I printed damaged and curved after a few months but the greentec still conserves the original print look.

IMG_3484.JPG


Anyone offtopic off :)
Hi Neotko !
This greentec filament seems really interesting, thanks for sharing I'll try sure !
As far as I know the bioFila plaTec & greentec are the same according to fohensturm tests.

https://ultimaker.com/en/community/19219-biofila-platec

The good thing is that extrudr actually has a decent range of colors to choose.

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Re: Super hard nozzles - Test pilots

Post by Anders Olsson » December 18th, 2016, 4:50 pm

gr5 wrote:Just to clarify - I think Carl's patent has nothing to do with ruby or sapphire nozzles and instead is related to a newer secret nozzle. But I could be wrong.

And it's *that* nozzle, the secret nozzle, that "can't be made in china". Which I translate to meaning, "is unlikely to show up at 1/4 the cost on ebay from sellers in Asia". But yeah - of course anything that can be made one one country can be made anywhere.
By the way, just in case that new super secret nozzle that Carl is trying to patent happens to be something that invented long time ago, at least you know now who came up with that idea: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/102 ... 8-9892.mp4
Watch the nozzle tip closely when it is retracting :-)

I find it a bit unlikely that the super secret nozzle is this thing though since I made this prototype in an hour or two, at home, in my Chinese jewelers lathe :-)

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Re: Super hard nozzles - Test pilots

Post by Neotko » December 18th, 2016, 5:18 pm

Anders. How much cost that lathe and what china brand is? I would really like to be able to do small stuff, even if not perfect sometimes could be nice.

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Re: Super hard nozzles - Test pilots

Post by Anders Olsson » December 18th, 2016, 6:18 pm

My lathe is called Nanoturn:: http://www.bernardo.at/shop/en/metal/me ... oturn.html
But identically looking machines are sold under numerous brands

If you want to make nozzle-like stuff you need at least this tool: http://gg-tools.com/epages/4a53cb12-c34 ... ucts/40213
And this set: http://gg-tools.com/epages/4a53cb12-c34 ... ucts/22014

As you can see, GG-tools also sells a similar lathe.

If you can find some second hand Emco Unimat or Myford, complete with tools, it is probably a better buy, even though I get the things done in the Nanoturn.

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Re: Super hard nozzles - Test pilots

Post by LePaul » December 18th, 2016, 9:51 pm

If I saw this right...a retractable nozzle?

I've followed this thread a bit and I find one thing a little ironic. This industry exploded in growth and access when patents expired

And now people want to go patent crazy again?

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Re: Super hard nozzles - Test pilots

Post by ivan.akapulko » December 19th, 2016, 2:06 am

LePaul wrote:If I saw this right...a retractable nozzle?

I've followed this thread a bit and I find one thing a little ironic. This industry exploded in growth and access when patents expired

And now people want to go patent crazy again?
It look like some folks wanna sale his company to someone big in the furure, but big guys dont want buy a hype, but something more material. Like patents. And becose of these that weird patent sh*t still alive.

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Re: Super hard nozzles - Test pilots

Post by drayson » December 19th, 2016, 6:50 am

Anders Olsson wrote:My lathe is called Nanoturn:: http://www.bernardo.at/shop/en/metal/me ... oturn.html
But identically looking machines are sold under numerous brands

If you want to make nozzle-like stuff you need at least this tool: http://gg-tools.com/epages/4a53cb12-c34 ... ucts/40213
And this set: http://gg-tools.com/epages/4a53cb12-c34 ... ucts/22014

As you can see, GG-tools also sells a similar lathe.

If you can find some second hand Emco Unimat or Myford, complete with tools, it is probably a better buy, even though I get the things done in the Nanoturn.
... and also some drills/stiches with 50 and 60°for the internal shape...
Will give that a try during the christmas public holidays...

b.t.w. I recently bought an old EMCO Unimat 3 with all the relevant/required tools/accessories and finally hit somthing like 1400€... 600€ for the lathe incl. milling attachement, rest for clamps, turning steels, chucks, mounts,...

@ Anders, could you please do me a favor and confirm that the olsson block nozzles have standard M6 threads? Those nozzles should fit also the UMO alu block - isnt?

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Re: Super hard nozzles - Test pilots

Post by Neotko » December 19th, 2016, 7:17 am

They do work on umo block yea. That's where I tested the first betas.

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Re: Super hard nozzles - Test pilots

Post by Meduza » December 19th, 2016, 3:52 pm

The Olsson nozzles do have a 7,5mm long M6x1mm thread if I remember correctly

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Re: Super hard nozzles - Test pilots

Post by ronzawora » December 19th, 2016, 6:00 pm

So much expertise on the nozzle here and past history of collaboration.

I suggest that perhaps instead of disagreeing work together and formulate a confederation of nozzle manufacturing.

I am a fan of anyone pushing boundaries and limits. I'm basically a fan of all of you.

I'd love to have you add your nozzles to my collection -- even if that means me becoming a paying customer.

Please consider what you can do for me and how we can do business together. My goal is to unite you all and make you my friend.

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Re: Super hard nozzles - Test pilots

Post by Anders Olsson » December 22nd, 2016, 7:38 pm

LePaul wrote:If I saw this right...a retractable nozzle?
It is actually a bit more advanced than that :-)

Regarding patents, I would say that patents are generally only blocking development or helping large companies gaining more money.
For people with limited budget (like me) it makes little sense to patent things.
If a large company wants things I have patented, they will just take them without asking me (or if they are exceptionally nice they would offer to buy the patent from me).
If they steal my inventions and I try to sue them, the will send a bunch of lawyers, find some weakness in my story and sue me back and in the end take over my patent. (I am not being pessimistic, these things do happen)

Therefore I much rather publish things (like the ruby nozzle) so that the technology is known and no large company can block development by patenting it.
ronzawora wrote:So much expertise on the nozzle here and past history of collaboration.

I suggest that perhaps instead of disagreeing work together and formulate a confederation of nozzle manufacturing.

I am a fan of anyone pushing boundaries and limits. I'm basically a fan of all of you.

I'd love to have you add your nozzles to my collection -- even if that means me becoming a paying customer.

Please consider what you can do for me and how we can do business together. My goal is to unite you all and make you my friend.
I was thinking about this the other day and I would say the real issue is that the business models are too different.
3DVerkstan (or Ultimaker for example) has a large share of customers from industry and Universities, where money is less of an issue but where the customer expects flawless products and good support.
So everything they sell really has to be properly tested and well functioning.
Any products that are not well tested would only be confidentially distributed to special customers as free samples of a prototype.

That business model simply does not combine with Carl/3DSolex much more rushed way of pushing new things out on the market, and this actually what the whole issue is about.

Larger companies simply just can not take any chances like that when new products are released. Everything has to be tested and documented properly, all claims has to be based on real data, or they risk ending up in big trouble later on.

In money-terms that translates to that any product which is not properly tested, no matter how cool or unique it might be, has very little value for the large company.
New products can even have negative value, even if they appear to work as prototypes, as they pose a risk of causing future trouble and costs if adopted.
That is why Ultimaker are unlikely to listen when you present your new super smart invention, unless you can show a them a list of your 500 happy customers, present multiple sources for all components needed and so on.

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Re: Super hard nozzles - Test pilots

Post by LePaul » December 23rd, 2016, 1:20 pm

Very good write up

I wonder if Swordriff will respond

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