Paul's FT-5 Build

Discussion of the Folger Tech Large Scale 3D Printer Kits, such as the FT-5, FT-i3 Mega, FT-6 and others
User avatar
LePaul
Reactions:
Posts: 3204
Joined: February 7th, 2016, 10:26 pm
Location: Bangor, Maine USA
3D Printer(s): Ultimaker 2+, FT-5, CR-10, CR-10S, Tevo Tornado
Contact:

Re: Paul's FT-5 Build

Post by LePaul » August 2nd, 2017, 9:43 am

I used the 713Maker gantry

User avatar
LePaul
Reactions:
Posts: 3204
Joined: February 7th, 2016, 10:26 pm
Location: Bangor, Maine USA
3D Printer(s): Ultimaker 2+, FT-5, CR-10, CR-10S, Tevo Tornado
Contact:

Re: Paul's FT-5 Build

Post by LePaul » August 8th, 2017, 11:24 am

Time for a little update...

At this time, I haven't had any binding in moving the bed up and down. I also haven't really tightened up the top section either. My approach is to leave things alone if they seem to work!

Part Cooling wise, I have used this one (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2457767) since it requires little work to bolt it on. Remove Aero fan, attachment piece, then bolt Aero fan back on. Front piece contains the blower fan and nozzle. Since my hot end uses the silicone sock, I felt OK using PLA the first time around to test. Working with the part designer, he wanted the nozzle to be a bit longer to be closer to the hot end. With that being the case, I decided to unbox my Ultimaker Polycarbonate material and use that, since it has heat tolerance of up to 110C. Being transparent, it will look neat, too!
pc_fan.jpg
pc_nozzle.jpg
I'm using ColorFabb PLA and am noticing that I am probably printing a bit too hot (or maybe there is some temp variations between my printers, since 210 works great on the Ultimaker....however, it is also 2.85). In my benchie test prints, the first half was printed at 210C (first layer at 215C). I brought the temperature down to 205C and you can see the benchie is much improved. I think I will try printing at 200 on my next try, to see what the sweet spot is with this filament.
benchie1.jpg
benchie2.jpg
Since this fan sticks out on the Y axis, I will need to remove the front frame piece. Initially I didn't think this would be a good idea. However, after a few prints, I can tell you that the crossbar is constantly in the way. Whether or not this cooling solution stays, the front crossbar needs to come out!

User avatar
LePaul
Reactions:
Posts: 3204
Joined: February 7th, 2016, 10:26 pm
Location: Bangor, Maine USA
3D Printer(s): Ultimaker 2+, FT-5, CR-10, CR-10S, Tevo Tornado
Contact:

Re: Paul's FT-5 Build

Post by LePaul » August 15th, 2017, 10:28 am

Well I have something very odd going on...despite a good coating of diluted PVA on the bed, I keep having adhesion issues.

I cleaned the mirror off yesterday, scrubbed it good and clean and applied a new coating (10 parts water, 1 part Elmers Wood glue). This same recipe works amazing on the Ultimaker 2+ but we're having challenges on the FT-5

I wish I had a thermal gun to see if the bed is really hitting 60C.

But print after print is coming off the bed. Print temp on the filament is first layer 215, remaining layers 205.

User avatar
LePaul
Reactions:
Posts: 3204
Joined: February 7th, 2016, 10:26 pm
Location: Bangor, Maine USA
3D Printer(s): Ultimaker 2+, FT-5, CR-10, CR-10S, Tevo Tornado
Contact:

Re: Paul's FT-5 Build

Post by LePaul » August 17th, 2017, 10:49 am

Well I dunno if my bed is too hot or my filament is...I am used to setting the bed to 60C and the filament prints the first layer at 215, then 205 for remaining layers.

I wish I had a meter to measure how hot the bed is really getting.
hot.jpg

User avatar
LePaul
Reactions:
Posts: 3204
Joined: February 7th, 2016, 10:26 pm
Location: Bangor, Maine USA
3D Printer(s): Ultimaker 2+, FT-5, CR-10, CR-10S, Tevo Tornado
Contact:

Re: Paul's FT-5 Build

Post by LePaul » August 20th, 2017, 12:15 pm

I decided to do the PID auto tune on my Titan Aero. I'm really not sure why I skipped this step in my build! I watched Tom's 3D video on it but I was so distracted by the fact he was fighting a cold and looked completely rocked by cold meds. His video also doesn't stay in synch with what he is displaying on his terminal. A quick search for other PID videos got the details I needed

I set the nozzle to 200 and got the PID variables. They are a lot different than the stock firmware. Which makes sense since I'm not using their stock hot end. I stored it on the firmware (eeprom) and ran PID on the bed for 60c.

I noticed, via OctoPrint, when warming up the bed it went right to 60 (display always showed 60). It had always show. 59.6 or so in OctoPrint. The test print came out really good.

Next up I changed the part cooler again. My friend James and I both have the same setups and we're seeing adhesion issues. We're using hairspray and he runs the bed a bit cooler than me. But both of us would see, like on a thin portion of a part, that would eventually peel up or fly off. I added a slight z hop which helped bit again, the section would let go. We did the same print again but at a much slower speed and the problem ceased. We concluded the slower speed let the part cool down.

To test it out he printed a new part cooler setup and found at 60 mm/s he wasn't peeling up anymore. His duct was moving a lot of air right where it needed to be. And the solution wasn't very invasive to install.

I had to spin my heater block around and opted to use Polycarbonate for the duct portion. It came out pretty nice.
IMG_8268.JPG
IMG_8270.JPG
IMG_8277.JPG

User avatar
LePaul
Reactions:
Posts: 3204
Joined: February 7th, 2016, 10:26 pm
Location: Bangor, Maine USA
3D Printer(s): Ultimaker 2+, FT-5, CR-10, CR-10S, Tevo Tornado
Contact:

Re: Paul's FT-5 Build

Post by LePaul » September 1st, 2017, 8:49 am

Time for an update

First, that great new nozzle duct ...the designer improved the design so that it would print more onto the part and adjusted the angle some more. I printed a new one out of XTCF-20 since it can handle 100C

I've still been dealing with problems with prints lifting from the surface, mostly edge curling.

My experiences with the Ultimaker had taught me that this is usually the result of temps. Either the PLA is too hot or bed too hot. However, since this only happened with smaller parts, I was really beginning to suspect my part cooling fan.

While scrolling through posts in the Facebook group, someone had mentioned something that caught my eye. Verifying their esteps on the extruder after doing a PID on their hot end. Well, that's easy to do. Mark off 100 mm on the filament, tell the printer to extrude that much and make sure that much really went through. I setup the printer with Colorfabb Dutch Orange and recently put Colorfabb PLA Economy White in there, they should both work fine, right?

Well, no.

I was doing the extrusion tests at my PID value (200C) and I was only getting 82 mm to extrude. Wow. That's way off.

But a few weeks ago, I had it perfect!

I posted my situation to the Facebook group and a fellow R2 builder suggested checking I do not have a partial clog from the filament change. I did 3 Atomic pulls and the first one had a LOT of orange residue in there, very little on the second and perfectly nozzle formed white on the third.

Now a new set of extrusion tests. And this time, when commanded to do 100 mm, we were still off.

I looked through some other suggestions that were made to my post. Someone suggested setting my esteps back to 400 and see what happens. Someone else mentioned updating my Configuration H with my PID values and some changes to Acceleration and Jerk while at it. All very good ideas! It only took a few minutes to find the areas to edit in Arduino and then upload them to the printer. Reboot the machine to verify changes...none took. I shared my firmware not updating question with the group and some mentioned gcodes to try, some said do a failsafe and a few other steps.

The winning answer was to upload, do a failsafe then Save Settings. Then power cycle.

Why I expect anything to be easy with this machine, I don't know!

With a new estep value, I did the tests and came up with the numbers I needed to calculate the esteps all over again

Here's a great walk thru video should you ever need to know how



Now that I have the new values calculated and extrusion amount is good, I am back to doing some more calibrating. My test cube measures perfectly but there are some ringing effects in there. The S3D z seam is prominent on the left side and of course, white filament amplifies all things bad.
21150159_10155446659995169_6361837725391055548_n.jpg
21150200_10155446660355169_5657058314173119034_n.jpg
Next up is to replace the Y idlers with GT2 pulleys. The chrome rods are due to arrive today and utilize a design mod found on Thingiverse.

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2108466


Once those are in, I can double check the belts again and do more tests.....hopefully a good print will happen so I can have this try some big prints needed for BB-8

User avatar
LePaul
Reactions:
Posts: 3204
Joined: February 7th, 2016, 10:26 pm
Location: Bangor, Maine USA
3D Printer(s): Ultimaker 2+, FT-5, CR-10, CR-10S, Tevo Tornado
Contact:

Re: Paul's FT-5 Build

Post by LePaul » September 5th, 2017, 9:15 pm

Just installed LokBuild on the CR-10 and FT-5, which does two good things...a great print surface and helps a bit with the not so perfectly level beds on each printer.

Web Site (http://www.lokbuild.com/)

Basically $29 a sheet and I have heard a lot of good feedback about this stuff. Diluted wood glue works perfect on the Ultimaker being enclosed. However the movement of the CR-10 and open air of the FT-5 seem to be a challenge. Hairspray works well but I thought it was time to try something else out.

They advise two things that caught my eye....bed heat not required (but I will still use!) and that the bed doesn't have to be super close, like flat filament on first layer, for good adhesion.

In reading reviews, one gent mentioned it works too good on large prints with a large footprint on the first layer. Since most everything I am printing is tall and not a huge footprint, that's fine. I had one 35 hour print lift a little bit towards the end, ruining the part. This will prevent that from happening again!

User avatar
LePaul
Reactions:
Posts: 3204
Joined: February 7th, 2016, 10:26 pm
Location: Bangor, Maine USA
3D Printer(s): Ultimaker 2+, FT-5, CR-10, CR-10S, Tevo Tornado
Contact:

Re: Paul's FT-5 Build

Post by LePaul » September 18th, 2017, 8:43 am

More small progress....

It's been a really long road with this printer and I really haven't gotten to the part of doing anything big yet!

As frustrating as it is, at least some progress is being made.

First was the Y idler upgrade. This replaces the cheap bearings that had held in place with plastic spacers. Why oh why this wasn't a real 20T pulley to begin with just baffles the mind. (I understand the theme of this printer is cheap...but at all costs?)

The upgrade is here: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2108466

Essentially you sandwich an 8mm rod and 20T pulley between two 3D printed pieces and two 608 bearings. It isn't a lot of fun to install, since you are trying to keep everything together, make sure the belt stays where it should and then hope the T nuts are properly aligned to fit in the 2020 channel. Once you have the first one done, the second is a bit easier. Then it's a matter of accessing the set screws and tightening things down.

Belts look good and since the X axis has been my problem child, I made sure those were a bit tighter. Since I have the 713Maker gantry, that's easy. Loosen X motor on 2020 rail, pull and tighten.

Yesterday I feel like I made enormous headway on print quality. Despite numerous changes to the Acceleration and XY Jerk settings, my prints still had really bad ringing. I posted to the FolgerTech FT-5 group about help refining the FT-5 Simplify3D profile for the Titan Aero. A few people offered some good suggestions. But one member, Derek, made a really outstanding point. He stated Simplify3D v4 really did bad things to old profiles, so make a new one, enter these things back in and try some test prints. The only thing I keyed in were the retraction distance and speed, plus the temps. First layer 215, after that, 210. Bed 60. Fan 100% after layer one.

And, look what I got...
better.jpg
better2.jpg
Not quite perfect but the ringing is gone.

While I am hesitant to announce parades for all...he and I are going to see if we can further tweak some more settings and then move on to a few other test prints (different model) and see if we "just might have" this thing on the path or printing good.

User avatar
LePaul
Reactions:
Posts: 3204
Joined: February 7th, 2016, 10:26 pm
Location: Bangor, Maine USA
3D Printer(s): Ultimaker 2+, FT-5, CR-10, CR-10S, Tevo Tornado
Contact:

Re: Paul's FT-5 Build

Post by LePaul » September 26th, 2017, 11:27 am

In our last exciting episode, we were delighted the ringing was gone!

But then we noted some under extrusion, or even some missed steps.

I figured it would be a good idea to verify the Extruder stepper driver was at 0.90 as intended. No, it was at 0.662.

Change made, more test prints....and now...shifted layers! A driver swap from the X axis and we're still seeing shifts. What could this be?

Well, rewind to what we're using...a pancake motor. My friend points out we're way too high in voltage and lower it to 0.55.

We get a good print.

We decide to tempt fate and give the FT-5 a large print...and aside some minor strings here and there from a lousy part cooling duct, it does good!
dragon.jpg

GrueMaster
Reactions:
Posts: 342
Joined: March 15th, 2017, 8:46 pm
Location: Oregon
3D Printer(s): Hictop 3DP-17, Hictop CR-10S

Re: Paul's FT-5 Build

Post by GrueMaster » September 26th, 2017, 10:43 pm

Sweet!

User avatar
LePaul
Reactions:
Posts: 3204
Joined: February 7th, 2016, 10:26 pm
Location: Bangor, Maine USA
3D Printer(s): Ultimaker 2+, FT-5, CR-10, CR-10S, Tevo Tornado
Contact:

Re: Paul's FT-5 Build

Post by LePaul » September 27th, 2017, 9:02 am

I'm still having difficulty finding the sweet spot for the driver. 0.55 produced a massively underextruded calibration block (yet impressive it stayed together). My friend has shipped me some extra drivers he has, saving me a shopping trip to Pololu.

There's a lot of conversations on the Folger Tech Facebook group about different drivers giving better results. We'll see

Post Reply

Return to “Folger Tech Large Scale 3D Printers”