New heater block to fit standard nozzles on Ultimaker 3

The dual extruding Ultimaker 3!
Anders Olsson
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Re: New heater block to fit standard nozzles on Ultimaker 3

Post by Anders Olsson » January 12th, 2017, 11:55 am

Neotko wrote:Also anders, you did publish 3d images of your olsson long ago, but until people started to use it and it was more 'know' noone sold a clone.
That is not the fact at all actually, Chinese clones popped up after we sold just a few hundred. The reason was that someone (not me, I was strongly against it) decided to put manufacturing in China to save a few bucks and someone at the factory decided it was a good idea to sell them as a side-business (!).
The clones did of course not pass the quality control that we were forced to set up and that is why you are reading about leaking Chinese Olsson block clones every now and then.. :roll:

We were just lucky that those clones did not become more wide spread, it could have ruined the whole concept, just think about when people start returning Chinese clones claiming it is a genuine product that they bought second hand, wanting a new one..

I am not going to put any future manufacturing in China, that I can tell you..

So as long as the concept is working people are coping it properly it is not much of a problem, problem arises when the market is flooded with cheaper things that look proper in a distance but that are not working properly.

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Neotko
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Re: New heater block to fit standard nozzles on Ultimaker 3

Post by Neotko » January 12th, 2017, 12:26 pm

First page? Oct 12 2014

https://ultimaker.com/en/community/8689 ... eply-73341

Image

From that, an engineer could have put effort on doing them, that's what I mean with 'you did publish 3d images of your olsson long ago'

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Re: New heater block to fit standard nozzles on Ultimaker 3

Post by Anders Olsson » January 12th, 2017, 1:33 pm

That picture only shows the external design, which more or less has to look like that to fit inside the fan shroud while being compatible with E3D-nozzles.
It does not show the internal design though, which is the essential part that makes it work, and is not as straight forward to design or machine as one might think.
This is also where the leaking Chinese copies fail.

For example, apart from how the nozzle seating is designed and machined, I intentionally kept the thread rather short in order to get as much play as possible to allow for self-aligning between the sealing surfaces.

I did not publish that crucial part of the design in detail in order to have time to test and validate it until someone copied it.

And secondly, the sensor/heater fixing is also not shown in detail too, that was the second thing that I did not want people to copy immediately.

In the end, I found out that at least three different persons tried to develop similar things, but those small details were unique to my block and proved to work very well.

None of this helps if you have Chinese factory employees selling stuff the make in the factory outside working hours though, but thats another story :roll:

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Re: New heater block to fit standard nozzles on Ultimaker 3

Post by reibuehl » January 12th, 2017, 2:19 pm

Anders Olsson wrote:...I thought the total market was ~200 blocks...
[some paragraphs removed]
I don't think there is a real market for UM3 heater blocks with exchangeable nozzles by the way, not the same way as the UM2 Olsson block at least.
Both Ultimaker and the resellers wants to sell print cores instead, that it way better business, and the main customers have enough money to buy new cores anyway.
UM also didn't want to sell the Olsson block because their (at that time) main customers had enough money to by new UM2 blocks. You see the connection? :-)

So please don't stop your great work just because YOU think that there is a real market for something. You might be wrong there again ;-)
Reiner.

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UltiArjan
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Re: New heater block to fit standard nozzles on Ultimaker 3

Post by UltiArjan » January 12th, 2017, 2:31 pm

Think in this case the market will totally depend on the speed at which Ultimaker will bring out various core sizes, and ofc a ruby core. So with UM's current development speed there could very well be a market for some time :) but realistically if there are alternative UM cores the market for this will be very small I think. On the other hand, once enough people have a core with a worn out nozzle they have nothing to loose, so might be willing to give it a try.

I also think the market for DIY core refurbishment kits can be interesting...

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Re: New heater block to fit standard nozzles on Ultimaker 3

Post by LePaul » January 12th, 2017, 3:40 pm

Well I guess some of this relates to the question I asked about the competing block.

This topic has been a great read.

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Re: New heater block to fit standard nozzles on Ultimaker 3

Post by Neotko » January 14th, 2017, 8:31 am

Since is always to show than to explain



First is a standard Core AA untouched

The second is a Core with the Flexible Fixed Point.

Of course while printing the tension from the filament increases the stability of the NORMAL core, but ALSO transmits vibrations to the print, hence more ringing. With the flexible fixed point, the head still has enough play to work with the spring system of the cores and also when the nozzle is tighten, the twist isn't directly sent to the thin heat break of the normal cores, but mainly to the whole peek structure.

A even more boring video showing this


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Re: New heater block to fit standard nozzles on Ultimaker 3

Post by Neotko » January 14th, 2017, 4:15 pm

Also...

Gudo and I would like to share with all of you the changes done. We will publish the step files of the areas changed (no UM files or info where used to make it). This way we can share with the world the flexible fixed point solution, in hope that someday someone takes notices and pushes the quality a bit forward.
Captura de pantalla 2017-01-14 a las 22.12.09.png
So, Monday? Or tomorrow... Probably tomorrow

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Re: New heater block to fit standard nozzles on Ultimaker 3

Post by LePaul » January 14th, 2017, 8:55 pm

I am really, really curious what Ultimaker has had to say about your work and research?

That wiggle/wobble would have me a little concerned if I owned an Ultimaker 3 and saw this. (I'd clearly want a better nozzle that eliminates the ringing you demonstrated!)

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Re: New heater block to fit standard nozzles on Ultimaker 3

Post by Neotko » January 15th, 2017, 5:51 am


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UltiArjan
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Re: New heater block to fit standard nozzles on Ultimaker 3

Post by UltiArjan » January 15th, 2017, 7:42 am

Neo, interesting stuff.
I do think you should add a bit more explanation to the YM post.

Basically the changing nozzle will be clear for everyone, but the reduction of core movement (and ringing) on an empty core, like you claim, will not be very clear.
Also, very obvious, reducing this on a single extrusion print would be much easier by just removing the 2th core (and save weight).

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Neotko
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Re: New heater block to fit standard nozzles on Ultimaker 3

Post by Neotko » January 15th, 2017, 8:01 am

UltiArjan wrote:Neo, interesting stuff.
I do think you should add a bit more explanation to the YM post.

Basically the changing nozzle will be clear for everyone, but the reduction of core movement (and ringing) on an empty core, like you claim, will not be very clear.
Also, very obvious, reducing this on a single extrusion print would be much easier by just removing the 2th core (and save weight).
True last firmware allows to use one core right?

Anyhow the stiffness gain also affects the main core, but the video is to illustrate how much fixed point the whole cores has with it. Anyhow UM thinks that it could be a problem to have it more fixed, but I didn't saw such problem on both BB and AA modded cores. But indeed is a small sample. Hopefully this share will help to keep improving thinks instead of staying put without trying to make things better and just sell/sell/sell.

Also edited the youmagine to link to this post forums so there's no need to double the info wrote.

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Re: New heater block to fit standard nozzles on Ultimaker 3

Post by ivan.akapulko » January 15th, 2017, 9:59 am

Great worklog, guys! Any tests with 0.6/0.8 nozzles are done already? How good is it?

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Re: New heater block to fit standard nozzles on Ultimaker 3

Post by Anders Olsson » January 15th, 2017, 11:40 am

Clever of you to to use the Non Commercial Share Alike license!
That can potentially save you and gudo lots of trouble. :-)

One question regarding the design:
Is the bent metal piece really strong enough to absorb the torque when changing nozzle, yet flexible enough to allow the core to center in the seat in the print head in the down-position?
Or do you align the components somehow when assembling the core?
Or is there enough space inside the print head that the plastic frame can move in all directions to compensate for alignment issues?

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Re: New heater block to fit standard nozzles on Ultimaker 3

Post by Neotko » January 15th, 2017, 11:51 am

Well the non commercial is the license I always use for anything I upload. Also we only published the modded prts even though we could have published the whole core, I think is only fair to share the parts of the mod since the other parts are UM made. Also as I told you from the beginning we are interested on improving the print quality not making $.

About how hard it is, you try, is a very easy mod to make and it can be removed quite fast leaving the core as it was (mind the new hole on the black peek so the screw can go in/out when flexing).

Also Gudo and I shared all this mods to UM and asked Sander for permission if was ok for us to share our findings.

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