New heater block to fit standard nozzles on Ultimaker 3

The dual extruding Ultimaker 3!
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Neotko
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Re: New heater block to fit standard nozzles on Ultimaker 3

Post by Neotko » January 11th, 2017, 10:43 am

Hi anders.

I got the ok to share my findings.

I did a lot of changes on my um3 to push forward and remove some of the stuff I found a bit of an issue.

First. I asked Gudo if he could mod my core to 1.75mm. After many talks about how to do it I send him two of my cores and we thought of a Flexible-fixed-point solution to avoid any damage on the heatbreak and allow for easy swap for the nozzles.

The advantage I saw on my tests is that with this flexible-fixed point there's a huge reduction on the ringing on the prints. Because um3 printhead is heavier and uses a very small X misumi bearing, that makes it prone to wooble when shifting directions (as I saw using the slowmo 250fps) but with this fix the cores don't wooble when they are idle, transmitting less vibrations to the print. Also they become more stable and with less ringing.

I really hope someone uses this on future cores since is a step forward in quality. Ofc if you use standard um3 profiles you won't notice a thing since Cura uses a lot of tricks to make the printhead move with 500 accel/5yerk when printing the 'visible' areas. Ofc that has a lot of disadvantages when you want to print faster and not in 3 days for a big print....

This are the photos Gudo made of the mod before returning the cores to print with them. I must say that he is a really really brilliant guy.
IMG_4300.JPG
IMG_4299.JPG
IMG_4298.JPG
IMG_4304.JPG
IMG_4303.JPG
IMG_4301.JPG
IMG_4302.JPG
We are sharing all this since our goal isn't to 'SELL' but to improve further the quality as much as possible. And this flexible metal point really allows the head to be more stable and also stay flexible without compromising the way the core works. Probably Gudo can share more info about how he installed our idea.

So. Next mod.

The Printhead woobles a lot if you remove the Cura accel/yerk tricks.

After many attempts to print a bearing to make the small Y bearing more stable I found out that misumi sells a 0.5 small bearing that could fit inside the printhead. Cost is 0.7€ each and after installing 2 of them inside, the stability of the printhead improves BIG time (if you want to print fast without Cura accel/yerk tricks).

I will post misumi model and photos later when I get some time.

The third mod I did is to remove all the white slideblocks and replace them with a GT 608T and that also increased the reliability of the prints. But that fix, isn't for everyone since is very easy to break the slideblocks when removing them. But will post photos also.

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Re: New heater block to fit standard nozzles on Ultimaker 3

Post by LePaul » January 11th, 2017, 11:21 am

Wow, you guys are really pushing the frontier there...impressive

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Re: New heater block to fit standard nozzles on Ultimaker 3

Post by Neotko » January 11th, 2017, 12:11 pm

Ok more details.

The bearing I used is Misumi LFCF-0605 (0.78€) used 2, bough 8 just in case XD

One goes inside the printhead. To install requieres use of antistatic gloves because the electronics are quite sensible & skill like everything in life (I use trial and error to cover for the lack of skill :P )

One inside, the C opening of the bearing must face 'RIGHT' just because (many reasons).
image3-1.jpeg
The one outside, looking to inside, and again the C facing Right side
image4-1.jpeg
About the Belt/Slideblock, I uploaded the design I use on youmagine inside my Beyondslide blocks. I'll use this final design to update the umo ones, they work quite nice and is the basic design I'll use if I ever finish the mod to use more print area.
https://www.youmagine.com/designs/beyon ... #documents
https://www.youmagine.com/documents/53632/download
https://www.youmagine.com/documents/53633/download

This is the ringing test before and after changing the Belts (while using the misumi x2 extra bearings to make the head more stable)
image1-2.jpeg
The 3 blocks with a U are with U'ltimaker slideblocks (is a single print with 3 different acceleration/jerk)
The 3 block with a B are with the Beyondslideblocks 608T belt (I did cut a 606T and moved 2 spaces while gripping it, not a easy task by any means but doable if you have patience and have changed your UMO slideblocks 8 times in total.

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Re: New heater block to fit standard nozzles on Ultimaker 3

Post by UltiArjan » January 12th, 2017, 7:13 am

neotko, really wonder how much torque you can put on the nozzle before breaking the heatbreak? you don't need to clamp the block when changing a nozzle right? just the screw is enough?

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Re: New heater block to fit standard nozzles on Ultimaker 3

Post by Neotko » January 12th, 2017, 7:20 am

UltiArjan wrote:neotko, really wonder how much torque you can put on the nozzle before breaking the heatbreak? you don't need to clamp the block when changing a nozzle right? just the screw is enough?
Well my tests I could do 1.2nM (digital torque screw driver) without issues. But as you point out the torque on 2.85 nozzles can damage the brass, but on 1.75mm there's more brass so is easy not to damage them.

Once I did a test for fun with a china olsson (1.75) and a china nozzle, I could snap the china brass (it did snap for good) around 4.5nM. I don't have 2.85 china nozzles to break, but could be a fun test to see when brass just dies or starts to deform.

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Re: New heater block to fit standard nozzles on Ultimaker 3

Post by UltiArjan » January 12th, 2017, 7:40 am

Brass?? I mean is the setup with the screw into the plastic parts ofor the core good enough to prevent damage to the heatbreak... the superthin part.... or is it replaced by a thicker part?

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Re: New heater block to fit standard nozzles on Ultimaker 3

Post by Neotko » January 12th, 2017, 7:54 am

Ahh I thought you where talking about damaging the nozzle. The thin part doesn't suffer, the torsion of the force is redirected to the whole peek structure so there's as less as possible stress on the heat break. 1.3nM used quite a lot of times without issues.

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Re: New heater block to fit standard nozzles on Ultimaker 3

Post by Anders Olsson » January 12th, 2017, 9:04 am

I probably used ~1 Nm at my design too without issues, I generally use the torque wrench though, just tried to overtighten it a few times by hand.

When I stress tested 2.85 mm nozzles (Swedish made) they snapped at ~5Nm by the way, so a well made 1.75 mm nozzle should take a bit more than that, even though the strength does not improve as much as you would think when you add material inside the nozzle.

Since it is (or was?) difficult to get extra print cores I did not do my mandatory destructive testing yet, that is partly why I don't want to publish exactly how I (think I) solved the problem, I simply don't know if it is a working solution until I have tried destroying it. I would like it to handle at least 3 Nm repeatedly to consider it as a working design.

I tried designing it in a way that bending forces are absorbed too by the way, since tightening the nozzle with a spanner results in more complex stress on the heatbreak than using a socket that you rotate.

My design consists of two parts by the way, which replaces existing parts, and no modification of existing parts is needed.
Just in case someone wants to try the concept, and risk ruining two print cores, I have four spare blocks at home :-)

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Re: New heater block to fit standard nozzles on Ultimaker 3

Post by Neotko » January 12th, 2017, 9:22 am

Anders Olsson wrote:I probably used ~1 Nm at my design too without issues, I generally use the torque wrench though, just tried to overtighten it a few times by hand.

When I stress tested 2.85 mm nozzles (Swedish made) they snapped at ~5Nm by the way, so a well made 1.75 mm nozzle should take a bit more than that, even though the strength does not improve as much as you would think when you add material inside the nozzle.

Since it is (or was?) difficult to get extra print cores I did not do my mandatory destructive testing yet, that is partly why I don't want to publish exactly how I (think I) solved the problem, I simply don't know if it is a working solution until I have tried destroying it. I would like it to handle at least 3 Nm repeatedly to consider it as a working design.

I tried designing it in a way that bending forces are absorbed too by the way, since tightening the nozzle with a spanner results in more complex stress on the heatbreak than using a socket that you rotate.

My design consists of two parts by the way, which replaces existing parts, and no modification of existing parts is needed.
Just in case someone wants to try the concept, and risk ruining two print cores, I have four spare blocks at home :-)
This mod in fact only uses 2 parts, the flexible fix point and the block. The other parts changes is because Gudo also changed the parts to be 1.75mm.

Hey We show you our thingy and you don't show yours? XD no problem hahaha. Well we can show because we don't have commercial intentions, hopefully the improvements might be done by someone someday so we all can print better.

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Re: New heater block to fit standard nozzles on Ultimaker 3

Post by UltiArjan » January 12th, 2017, 9:53 am

Just in case someone wants to try the concept, and risk ruining two print cores, I have four spare blocks at home


Anders. I like to try. I already have two extra cores in stock... I feel brave enough to risk them (think you have it but I'll PM you my email)

Do these new blocks use the standard nozzles?

You probably tighten the nozzle cold on the cores right? So around 1nm I guess? I could also easily make a device to heat them outside the printer to be able to tighten them hot.
Last edited by UltiArjan on January 12th, 2017, 10:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: New heater block to fit standard nozzles on Ultimaker 3

Post by LePaul » January 12th, 2017, 10:06 am

(Welcome to the forum, UltiArjan!)

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Re: New heater block to fit standard nozzles on Ultimaker 3

Post by UltiArjan » January 12th, 2017, 10:12 am

I'm late to the party, I know... too many different places to track already.... but it got interesting in here :)

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Re: New heater block to fit standard nozzles on Ultimaker 3

Post by gudo » January 12th, 2017, 10:13 am

Hi to all
A Youtube link for those who would like to disassemble a UM3 core by proceeding in all security
thanks to gr5

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Re: New heater block to fit standard nozzles on Ultimaker 3

Post by Anders Olsson » January 12th, 2017, 11:02 am

Neotko wrote:Hey We show you our thingy and you don't show yours? XD no problem hahaha. Well we can show because we don't have commercial intentions, hopefully the improvements might be done by someone someday so we all can print better.
What will happen if I upload a picture is that someone quickly make a rough copy of the design and start selling it as a "UM3 Olsson block", referring to this thread. Then people will come here complaining when they destroyed their heat break and I will get badwill for that.
That is why I avoid publishing crucial things about the design before it is properly tested.
And if it does not work good enough I will never consider selling it or publishing the design, no matter if it works for me if I am really careful.

I did the same thing with the Olsson block, rigorously testing it and keeping essential parts secret just to make sure we released a properly working product before the copies popped up (even though I thought the total market was ~200 blocks).
The torque wrench was part of the Olsson block concept and was rigorously tested by people around the world before it was released. I also found it to be an interesting design challenge, otherwise I would not have put that much effort on it :-)
For the ruby nozzle, you saw yourself what can happen when one shares drawings. Luckily it seems we got the working version on the market first and it is quite difficult to flood the market with lousy copies just because the precision needed for it to work at all and the difficulties finding good sources of rubies.

The problem for me is when people start selling copies of my designs that are not properly working, that might ruin the trust for a concept (and for me as a designer) completely, and I don't want that to happen.

Just imagine when it pops up Chinese clones of your design (which is not at all unlikely), referring to it as the Neotko/gudo UM3-block and forwarding people with questions or issues to this thread..

I just found out the other day by the way that the 3DSolex Matchless block is referred to as Olsson V3 block in some shops and that people generally thinks I designed it, even though I have not been even slightly involved and would not design it that way.

I don't think there is a real market for UM3 heater blocks with exchangeable nozzles by the way, not the same way as the UM2 Olsson block at least.
Both Ultimaker and the resellers wants to sell print cores instead, that it way better business, and the main customers have enough money to buy new cores anyway.

My UM3 block was, just as previous products, developed for research. I need to print abrasives with dual nozzles and I can not wait for Ultimaker to enable that, it is as simple as that.
UltiArjan wrote:Do these new blocks use the standard nozzles?
Yes, same nozzles as for UM2 with Olsson block.
You probably tighten the nozzle cold on the cores right? So around 1nm I guess? I could also easily make a device to heat them outside the printer to be able to tighten them hot.
Nope, just tighten them hot, with the torque wrench, just as in the UM2 :-)

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Re: New heater block to fit standard nozzles on Ultimaker 3

Post by Neotko » January 12th, 2017, 11:14 am

I was just pulling your leg anders! I wanted to have a 1.75mm core now thanks to Gudo i have 2 that work beautifully with the bondtech feeder I did. I published the feeder design. If someone sells it what can I do? Everything can be copied after selling it. Is always a matter of demand. Luckily for me not many users (and companies coff coff) are truly interested in pushing the limits of print quality as long as they keep selling.

So if a china company implements the flexible fixed point, I would buy one if mine breaks. Anyway, I think that being able yo replace the tfm is what could make them interesting, or a system that allows the user to self repair it, without having to toss 100€ to the recycle bin.

Also anders, you did publish 3d images of your olsson long ago, but until people started to use it and it was more 'know' noone sold a clone.

Everything can be cloned. Is just a matter of demand. For example there's no BCN3D sigma clones on aliexpress, but the bom is already online for quite some months.

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