Help with a lifting brim, please!

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blc
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Help with a lifting brim, please!

Post by blc » October 27th, 2016, 7:15 am

I need some help/guidance, if possible.

I've calibrated my axes, levelled the bed, and I've calibrated my extruder steps per mm, but I'm really struggling to print parts with fine details. I'm trying to print these chain cable links, but one of the finer parts keeps lifting from the bed:

Image

Those little "spurs" are 2mmx4mm, and in later layers the lift from the bed is enough to cause the nozzle to dislodge the print from the bed (the links in the background were printed before I started properly calibrating my extruder btw). To aid with bed adhesion I tried printing with a brim, but now I'm getting this problem:



The brim appears to be lifting from the bed and getting totally messed up.

What's going wrong here, and where do I need to look to fix it? Is this still an over-extrusion problem? I can post my Slic3r & firmware settings if it helps.

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ivan.akapulko
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Re: Help with a lifting brim, please!

Post by ivan.akapulko » October 27th, 2016, 7:42 am

Hi, blc!
If the house is a building level, then try to measure the position of the bed at the edges, whether there is bias towards the rear of the bed. What kind of plastic? What is the temperature?

blc
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Re: Help with a lifting brim, please!

Post by blc » October 27th, 2016, 7:47 am

ivan.akapulko wrote:Hi, blc!
If the house is a building level, then try to measure the position of the bed at the edges, whether there is bias towards the rear of the bed. What kind of plastic? What is the temperature?
Sorry, should have mentioned that!

This is PLA filament; nozzle is at 205°C and the bed is at 60°C for the first layer and 50°C for all other layers.

I've just spotted this though:

Image

There's an ever-so-slight fillet to the bottom edge which could be throwing things off. I've flipped the model 180° so that the flat "top" edge rests on the bed.

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ivan.akapulko
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Re: Help with a lifting brim, please!

Post by ivan.akapulko » October 27th, 2016, 8:10 am

Try 195 for nozzle and 70 for bed.Hope, it can help.

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Re: Help with a lifting brim, please!

Post by Anders Olsson » October 27th, 2016, 9:39 am

I have some experience with various tape on a cold bed on our delta machine and I absolutely hate blue tape!
With a heated bed you would normally not use tape though. I am not even sure the tape likes heat at all?
You should be able to print PLA on a clean hot bed, without tape!

The best and easiest thing to do is to get a glass plate and put it on top of the bed, it gives the PLA a nice flat surface to stick to and it is easy to clean.
With clean glass at 60 C PLA should stick like crazy!

In fact, I use glass with glue on my UM2Go which does not have a heated bed right now, and that also works fine, as long as you are careful with the cooling the first few millimeters.

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Re: Help with a lifting brim, please!

Post by blc » October 27th, 2016, 10:01 am

Anders Olsson wrote:I have some experience with various tape on a cold bed on our delta machine and I absolutely hate blue tape!
With a heated bed you would normally not use tape though. I am not even sure the tape likes heat at all?
You should be able to print PLA on a clean hot bed, without tape!

The best and easiest thing to do is to get a glass plate and put it on top of the bed, it gives the PLA a nice flat surface to stick to and it is easy to clean.
With clean glass at 60 C PLA should stick like crazy!

In fact, I use glass with glue on my UM2Go which does not have a heated bed right now, and that also works fine, as long as you are careful with the cooling the first few millimeters.
I've always lined the bed with tape, as I've always understood that This Is The Way You're Supposed To Do It. I've seen this advice elsewhere about not needing tape with PLA and a heated bed. I'll give it a shot later, though right now it looks like I'm also having bed levelling issues.

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Re: Help with a lifting brim, please!

Post by Izzy » October 27th, 2016, 6:01 pm

Agree with Anders, glue works well, also give a good quality hairspray a try.
For most PLA's I'm running at 210'C nozzle temperature, 50'C bed temperature, 45-50mm/s speed and using hairspray for bed adhersion.
Depending on your fans, non to very little for the first few layers, then slowly increasing to full (50% in my case due to very good ducts :lol: )at about 5mm.
Good luck, don't forget to show us the final printed item and let us know how you got on :-)
Izzy.

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MTVDNA
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Re: Help with a lifting brim, please!

Post by MTVDNA » October 27th, 2016, 6:29 pm

I've never used tape so I can't help you with that. Clean glass at 60 °C works just fine for me when I'm using PLA. I only use a brim when I print something with sharp corners, round edges don't tend to warp as much usually.

I did have some issues with poor first layer adhesion, even though the bed was perfectly level and the glass was clean. Turned out the bed was just ever so slightly too close to the nozzle. When I lowered it by just a fraction it improved drastically.

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Re: Help with a lifting brim, please!

Post by Amedee » October 28th, 2016, 6:39 am

I print on blue tape with my UMO (no heated bed).

PLA will stick perfectly, however the first layer is more delicate than with heated bed/glass plate:
  • Bed leveling must be perfect
  • Bed height must be well calibrated as well, so that first layer adheres well on the tape
  • I usually print the first layer 5°C hotter than the rest, to get better adhesion on the cold plate
Only problem with the blue tape is that it sticks so well that it is often difficult to remove the print without damaging the tape.

Heated bed/glass plate is more forgiving for PLA, I never calibrate anything and it just works. With the blue tape, I never leave the printer until the first layer is finished (but after the first layer is competed it won't get off)

But as others have pointed out, blue tape and heated bed are not going together very well...
Phil.

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Re: Help with a lifting brim, please!

Post by blc » November 25th, 2016, 9:20 am

Sorry, I didn't reply to this!

I started trying to print without tape... and learned that my bed is warped.

Need to get a glass plate!

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Chaco
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Re: Help with a lifting brim, please!

Post by Chaco » November 30th, 2016, 7:52 pm

Yes, one thing i have learned is that the first layer matters and its the most important one.
No good first layer = failed print!
So i print currently over glass.... 2 reasons
1- i use a think layer of glue stick on the glass, and never get any lifting layers
2- the first layer is butter smooth on the bottom when the print is done

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