Show off My latest Print

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Iltacitoduca
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Re: Show off My latest Print

Postby Iltacitoduca » September 14th, 2016, 2:14 pm

LePaul wrote:.... I am going to install the Ultimaker 2+ Extruder upgrade soon, so I can print with more materials and reliably!.....


When I printed the LFS_Elephant I printed with the original feeder at 100mm/s and 0.3mm layer 24% infill means 12mm^3 per second...
and as I wrote before... I think that the original feeder must only be assembled correctly (I mean respecting the good rules for a mechanical assembly) to do it's job nice

But if you like to spend money for a new feeder which will have the same problem of grinding of the old one... it is a choice... I write this because there is no difference between the old one and the new one if you look at the part in contact with the filament..

And more power (looking at the gears, its stepper motor can put 3.27 times more force) to grind the filament... and this cannot solve the problem... IMHO

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Izzy
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Re: Show off My latest Print

Postby Izzy » September 14th, 2016, 4:24 pm

I'm quite liking ABS now, depending on the manufacturer my nozzle Temperature is about 245 and a bed temperature of 100, I use ABS gloop to the bed applied when the bed is at room temperature.
I need to produce a decent test piece to calibrate and then allow for shrinkage.
Over all I prefer the green qualities of PLA for recycling, but for some things I do like ABS
Izzy.

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Meduza
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Re: Show off My latest Print

Postby Meduza » September 14th, 2016, 8:05 pm

Iltacitoduca wrote:But if you like to spend money for a new feeder which will have the same problem of grinding of the old one... it is a choice... I write this because there is no difference between the old one and the new one if you look at the part in contact with the filament..

And more power (looking at the gears, its stepper motor can put 3.27 times more force) to grind the filament... and this cannot solve the problem... IMHO


This is due to a misunderstanding of the problems with the UM2 feeder.
The problem is not mainly the shape of the feeder gear, but that the feeder gear is mounted directly to the stepper axis, and that the stepper is driven pretty hard to get the torque needed. This causes the stepper (and therefore the feeder gear) to heat up and soften the filament, causing the filament to weaken in the surface, and therefore the feeder gear is loosing grip (resulting in grinding). This is solved in the 2+ with the plastic gears that thermally decouples the feeder gear. This is also solved with my belt drive gearbox for the UM2 which i created partly just to solve that problem.

Also, the feeder gears in the 2 and the 2+ feeders are actually different, the 2+ one are of a larger diameter (wich means larger contact surface with the filament)

In my experience, the 2+ feeder is really a great step up from the UM2 feeder.

Iltacitoduca
Posts: 51
Joined: September 14th, 2016, 6:39 am
3D Printer(s): Ultimaker 2

Re: Show off My latest Print

Postby Iltacitoduca » September 15th, 2016, 3:35 am

Izzy wrote:I'm quite liking ABS now, depending on the manufacturer my nozzle Temperature is about 245 and a bed temperature of 100, I use ABS gloop to the bed applied when the bed is at room temperature.
I need to produce a decent test piece to calibrate and then allow for shrinkage.
Over all I prefer the green qualities of PLA for recycling, but for some things I do like ABS


Hi Izzy,
as I print only ABS (all supplied from rs-components just because they deliver in one day ... ) I prefer kapton tape for bed adhesion
I have 5 color (blue-red-yellow-green-white-black) and I haven't found difference between them

What I can say is that the X and Y axis have to be well calibrated to let you have a optimum brim (usually I choose 20 to 25 lines with Cura).
Due to the plastic case of the Ultimaker 2 I did some reinforcement steel plates that took the places of the plastic ones (can see them in the video I posted) with them the two stepper doesn't move at all (never :-D )

100°C for the bed looks high for my experience... but as you can see here the bed is anything but uniform



:roll:

Iltacitoduca
Posts: 51
Joined: September 14th, 2016, 6:39 am
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Re: Show off My latest Print

Postby Iltacitoduca » September 15th, 2016, 3:40 am

Meduza wrote:
Iltacitoduca wrote:But if you like to spend money for a new feeder which will have the same problem of grinding of the old one... it is a choice... I write this because there is no difference between the old one and the new one if you look at the part in contact with the filament..

And more power (looking at the gears, its stepper motor can put 3.27 times more force) to grind the filament... and this cannot solve the problem... IMHO


This is due to a misunderstanding of the problems with the UM2 feeder.
The problem is not mainly the shape of the feeder gear, but that the feeder gear is mounted directly to the stepper axis, and that the stepper is driven pretty hard to get the torque needed. This causes the stepper (and therefore the feeder gear) to heat up and soften the filament, causing the filament to weaken in the surface, and therefore the feeder gear is loosing grip (resulting in grinding). This is solved in the 2+ with the plastic gears that thermally decouples the feeder gear. This is also solved with my belt drive gearbox for the UM2 which i created partly just to solve that problem.

Also, the feeder gears in the 2 and the 2+ feeders are actually different, the 2+ one are of a larger diameter (wich means larger contact surface with the filament)

In my experience, the 2+ feeder is really a great step up from the UM2 feeder.


Get it!
so the problem get worse with longer print ... or where there are so many retraction
I think I will print your belt drive to give it a try :-D

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Neotko
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Re: Show off My latest Print

Postby Neotko » September 15th, 2016, 4:05 am

I think the um2 & um2+ diamond shaped thing it's really bad. Both tend to erode the filament like a sandstone when force it's applied, and um2+ feeder spring oushes way too much so in the retractions it literally eats filament and can't do much consecutive retractions. I think the mk7 shapen tooths do a better work and pushing up/down the filament on retractions and specially bondtech dual has a more steady grip on the filament distributing the force along much more area without damaging the filament over extreme retractions.

Iltacitoduca
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Re: Show off My latest Print

Postby Iltacitoduca » September 15th, 2016, 11:12 am

Yes you are right Neotko. Also the choice of such small dimensions has further reduced the contact surface with the filament..
And the spring (on my UM2 feeder at least) is very hard to compress perhaps just because the contact surface is very small ... (I tried some springs more soften, but the filament slips away)
I have a couple of mk8 drive gear(made in China...) that I would like to try but until today I haven't time to make it. but I always thought that they were so small...


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Neotko
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Re: Show off My latest Print

Postby Neotko » September 15th, 2016, 1:54 pm

Iltacitoduca wrote:Yes you are right Neotko. Also the choice of such small dimensions has further reduced the contact surface with the filament..
And the spring (on my UM2 feeder at least) is very hard to compress perhaps just because the contact surface is very small ... (I tried some springs more soften, but the filament slips away)
I have a couple of mk8 drive gear(made in China...) that I would like to try but until today I haven't time to make it. but I always thought that they were so small...



Size doesn't matter much, but yea contact area.

Check this photo I took from the ones I have. The one without text (right) it's a MK7 I bough randomly on amazon. The ones from E3D do work nice, it has a very very sharp grip, but bondtech gears are way better, really thin, many points of grip. And this are the ones for 1.75mm, the 2.85 are bigger afaik.

Image

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ivan.akapulko
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Re: Show off My latest Print

Postby ivan.akapulko » September 15th, 2016, 3:14 pm

Accordingly, the smaller the notch, the better the feeder transmits the force on the filament? Right?

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Meduza
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Re: Show off My latest Print

Postby Meduza » September 15th, 2016, 6:48 pm

That can by definition not be true, since it would imply that a totally smooth wheel (infinitely small notches) would give the most force.

Too small and sharp teeth also got the problem that if they starts to grind ever so slightly, they get filled with plastic and looses all grip there is.

Iltacitoduca
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Re: Show off My latest Print

Postby Iltacitoduca » September 16th, 2016, 6:57 am

ivan.akapulko wrote:Accordingly, the smaller the notch, the better the feeder transmits the force on the filament? Right?


IMHO It is the opposite.
With parity of force applied.... the more bigger is the surface in contact with the filament the smaller will be the force applied for mm^2... so less deformation

Iltacitoduca
Posts: 51
Joined: September 14th, 2016, 6:39 am
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Re: Show off My latest Print

Postby Iltacitoduca » September 16th, 2016, 7:07 am

Neotko wrote:
Iltacitoduca wrote:Yes you are right Neotko. Also the choice of such small dimensions has further reduced the contact surface with the filament..
And the spring (on my UM2 feeder at least) is very hard to compress perhaps just because the contact surface is very small ... (I tried some springs more soften, but the filament slips away)
I have a couple of mk8 drive gear(made in China...) that I would like to try but until today I haven't time to make it. but I always thought that they were so small...



Size doesn't matter much, but yea contact area.

Check this photo I took from the ones I have. The one without text (right) it's a MK7 I bough randomly on amazon. The ones from E3D do work nice, it has a very very sharp grip, but bondtech gears are way better, really thin, many points of grip. And this are the ones for 1.75mm, the 2.85 are bigger afaik.

Image




Definitely contact area matter (as I wrote in the first line :-D )
What I don't understand is: having a feeder that is outside the machine and also use a bowden .. .why continue to use such small parts? :roll:

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Neotko
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Re: Show off My latest Print

Postby Neotko » September 16th, 2016, 7:34 am

True. I suppose that's why the bondtech they released yesterday (just the gears for diy) for 2.85 its almost double diameter.

The ones I use are supposed to be for direct drive

Anders Olsson
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Re: Show off My latest Print

Postby Anders Olsson » October 20th, 2016, 11:21 am

I suppose I am allowed to post Ultimaker 3 prints now, in case some of you who did have the opportunity to play with one yet are curious :-)

So here is how the globe came out in ABS, I think it is this model: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:15658
2016-10-04-8973.jpg

And after vacuum cleaning the surface it looks like this:
2016-10-04-8974.jpg

Considering that I was not using a priming tower, that the UM3 does not have any wiper for the nozzles and that this was still on beta firmware and software, I think that was a pretty good result! :-)

Simple geometries like this gear, printed in PLA, prints even better:
2016-10-02-8922.jpg

No wiping tower or tricks there either.

PVA prints is another story, it is more tricky.
It is more about the material itself and less about the printer though, and the Ultimaker team has done huge progress in fine tuning the software since I tested the UM3. Still though, building PVA on top of PLA remains tricky.

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LePaul
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Re: Show off My latest Print

Postby LePaul » October 20th, 2016, 11:31 am

gr5 had a box full of prints that were amazing. Hopefully he will post them....the robot one was good (looked like a Transformer robot)


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