Cura 2.6.1 is out

Discussion of Ultimaker's open-source Cura software
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Neotko
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Re: Cura 2.6.1 is out

Post by Neotko » July 4th, 2017, 12:02 pm

Thanks for your answers Nallath, nice info. Let's agree to disagree.

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Re: Cura 2.6.1 is out

Post by LePaul » July 4th, 2017, 12:03 pm

There's a lot of Ultimaker 2 and 2+'s out there. I'd hate to think those models are being ignored in favor of the Ultimaker 3's development and improvements. I mean, the UM2+ is still actively sold and in some ways, just as good/better than the UM3 if you don't care about dual extrusion and other tweaks the 3 offers.

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Re: Cura 2.6.1 is out

Post by Neotko » July 4th, 2017, 2:05 pm

Yeah. The community and users that give fame to a system might see how um plans and works. IMO is a bad marketing decision to stop pushing forward what they sell. UM clearly is laser focus on high companies and selling them in big numbers. That's fine, and they probed that their machines work, to an extent. Modders, the other source of marketing and keep selling and the ones that give extra free support might not be the same users that um focus on selling machines.

I just think that um is going on different directions for some stuff, and hopefully I'm wrong but for example atm bcn3d is a much more opensource (and knowledge) company. If I had to buy a new machine with all I know now I would hardly get an um3 but a bcn3d and install a zge system.

But anyhow. I feel a that the community and um are going different directions. Not cura ofc. But the machines.

UM indeed has solved the newb users problems with profiles that 'work'. But also users learn and will want more, is the human nature. Ofc not being g companies that to print faster they just buy more machines.

Well I'm rambling.

Back to work :D

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Re: Cura 2.6.1 is out

Post by LePaul » July 4th, 2017, 6:20 pm

I think Cura is a shiny spot for Ultimaker, for sure. Actively developed, reacting to feedback and improvement ideas. That's fantastic and what people hope to see.

Of course, Cura generates zero money for Ultimaker

I have no idea the numbers on UM2 sales versus UM3. The UM3 is a different creature for a different audience...and the price tag is $1000 more.

I'm watching, with interest, if the UM2+ gains any tweaks :)

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Re: Cura 2.6.1 is out

Post by Neotko » July 4th, 2017, 6:30 pm

LePaul wrote:
July 4th, 2017, 6:20 pm
Of course, Cura generates zero money for Ultimaker
No no no, don't confuse Open source Cura with zero money, on the contrary, I think that's their money maker. Let show why

Cura has UM, for UM, profiled on UM machines. Now, add UM filaments, and now they ofc are introducing technical materials (companies). So BLING BLING BLING cash cash cash.

Now, thanks to Cura very hard work doing profiles (I really thing is one of the most tedious and hard things to perfect) they can offer a machine + slicer + materials. Is an Close/Open system. Close as in 'it has all available' and Open as in 'you can go and test other stuff if you feel adventurous'. And that's the thing they sell, security. They got a lot of well deserver print hours on their machines, and we the community have also said that here and there, always saying how robust our printers are (and they do, at some level). So Cura, IMO is the money maker here. It closes the package and make's it easy to print in 3D. That's why Cura also has way so many automagical options so the user doesn't need to learn to adjust stuff, and that's a nice idea indeed. But also, they have use way too many tricks for the medium-advanced user. Again, IMO.

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Re: Cura 2.6.1 is out

Post by drayson » July 5th, 2017, 5:04 am

Well said neotko...
CURA is the enabler - true word, and a value proposition that is perfect for companies, but also privat ones too - security.
I think that UM has choosen the right strategy and I'm happy that it worked out to be the right one (because I love my UMO which I bought because of a very informative and convincingly phone call with Sander a few years ago :-) )
From my point of view it's a great example for company evolution from a startup to a valuable company and the staps they do are logic (from a business education perspective).
The negative side: too much stupid questions of guys not able to read a manual at the UM forum, less thinkerness of the machines and skipped support of "old" generations - but that's usual when a company grows...

anyway, just my 2 cents...

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Re: Cura 2.6.1 is out

Post by nallath » July 5th, 2017, 5:43 am

As far as Cura goes, we're still supporting the old machines. I expect UM to continue to do so (if not, I will spend some time on it by myself).

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Re: Cura 2.6.1 is out

Post by nallath » July 5th, 2017, 7:25 am

I just asked the firmware team why we never made the switch to the "new" marlin. As I already thought, the reason is pretty simple;
It has been quite unstable (They have been working on it for 2(!) years and it's still not quite there yet). They added a whole slew of new features that are either unneeded for the UM2(+) or broke other features in such a way that it should be considered a net loss of functionality. The planning code of Marlin has not changed as NeoToko suggests. A few bug fixes were made and a number of those (eg; not already fixed by us) have been ported to "our" firmwares. Every so often we check what the state of Marlin is and port any changes that are relevant.

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Re: Cura 2.6.1 is out

Post by drayson » July 5th, 2017, 9:20 am

nallath wrote:
July 5th, 2017, 7:25 am
I just asked the firmware team why we never made the switch to the "new" marlin. As I already thought, the reason is pretty simple;
It has been quite unstable (They have been working on it for 2(!) years and it's still not quite there yet). They added a whole slew of new features that are either unneeded for the UM2(+) or broke other features in such a way that it should be considered a net loss of functionality. The planning code of Marlin has not changed as NeoToko suggests. A few bug fixes were made and a number of those (eg; not already fixed by us) have been ported to "our" firmwares. Every so often we check what the state of Marlin is and port any changes that are relevant.
I renently gave it a try and switched back to my 2014 version as it won´t do the things I like (or I have mis-configured it...).
Features like a better implementation of Pause and an Alphabetic Sort are quite nice, but a propperly implemented "abort" is still missing...

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Re: Cura 2.6.1 is out

Post by Neotko » July 5th, 2017, 11:09 am

- Per tool PID
- Per tool Z offset
- UM2/UM2+ bed PID (if is doable on um3 why um2 can't?) I suppose is because Europe didn't passed the ok for um2 long ago, but if um3 passed, what's different?
- Travel/Print separated acceleration/jerk

That's the first things that come to my mind right now that umo+/um2 should have. And that's without thinking about user experience like:
- Being able to calibrate an array of printers temperature (temperature overrides)
- Changing to the cura direct profiles
- Removing insidious retraction gcode to allow retractions+move for ultigcode users. (Yeah they could use reprap, but we are talking about improving new users experience and adding something interesting to the mix I think).
- Fixing the material system, since it flawed. That should be just a bug to fix on someone todo.

I know what you mean by marlin being old. Indeed same as the atmega at 300€+ with medieval steppers and new um2+ with only 4 steppers boards. Both should be removed and changed for something better. Ofc that might happen someday, maybe um4?

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Re: Cura 2.6.1 is out

Post by nallath » July 5th, 2017, 11:44 am

Neotko wrote:
July 5th, 2017, 11:09 am
- Per tool PID
- Per tool Z offset
Why would UM2 need this? Only one tool.
Neotko wrote:
July 5th, 2017, 11:09 am
- Travel/Print separated acceleration/jerk
No need to have it in marlin. Cura already handles it.
Neotko wrote:
July 5th, 2017, 11:09 am
- Removing insidious retraction gcode to allow retractions+move for ultigcode users. (Yeah they could use reprap, but we are talking about improving new users experience and adding something interesting to the mix I think).
- Fixing the material system, since it flawed. That should be just a bug to fix on someone todo.
There is no easy fix for this, as I already stated previously. It will add a fuckton maintenance burden on us. Doing things like this is a bit like hauling rocks over a long distance. The first few rocks that you pick up and put in your bag arent so bad. But after having 50 kg of rocks in your bag, it's getting pretty hard to move anywhere. Software devs know the "price" of this and tend to resist situations like this.

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Re: Cura 2.6.1 is out

Post by LePaul » July 6th, 2017, 10:55 am

2.6.2 is out!

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Re: Cura 2.6.1 is out

Post by darkdvd » July 6th, 2017, 12:00 pm

LePaul wrote:
July 6th, 2017, 10:55 am
2.6.2 is out!
"Fixed an issue with Cura crashing on older versions of MacOS."

....ok.
"Qui ne connaît pas l'histoire ne connaît rien"
Edward johnston, 1990

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Re: Cura 2.6.1 is out

Post by LePaul » July 6th, 2017, 12:21 pm

Yeah these new versions are coming out quickly

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Re: Cura 2.6.1 is out

Post by nallath » July 7th, 2017, 3:48 am

Yeah, our build server did a boo-boo. It's really hard to keep the OSX building stuff in working condition.

As it only fixes stuff for people that couldn't run 2.6.1, it's also a "silent" release.

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