Cura 2.3.1

Discussion of Ultimaker's open-source Cura software
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Neotko
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Re: Cura 2.3.1

Post by Neotko » January 15th, 2017, 7:56 am

Indeed. I truly don't get the fixation UM Cura team has for automagical options.

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Re: Cura 2.3.1

Post by nilrog » January 17th, 2017, 1:31 am

This is so spot on that I won't bother retyping it...the UX here sucks :(

https://ultimaker.com/en/community/3608 ... in-cura-2x

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Re: Cura 2.3.1

Post by LePaul » January 17th, 2017, 9:46 am

I just wish there was a Slice button. Let me choose when to process. I work with large models so anytime I move the model around to fit the build plate best, I have to wait...and wait...

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Re: Cura 2.3.1

Post by Neotko » January 17th, 2017, 10:04 am

Maybe this works. I haven't tested it https://ultimaker.com/reply/forward/169036

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Re: Cura 2.3.1

Post by nallath » January 20th, 2017, 5:53 am

I don't know what the fixation of users is with the auto slicing. Originally aldo's plugin didn't even stop the slicing, it just hit id. i've had tons of users tell me that his plugin made all the difference and that it was soo much faster.

As for keeping objects apart, we recently had a research sprint in which one of the devs greatly improved the keep object apart code.

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Re: Cura 2.3.1

Post by Neotko » January 20th, 2017, 6:04 am

nallath wrote:I don't know what the fixation of users is with the auto slicing. Originally aldo's plugin didn't even stop the slicing, it just hit id. i've had tons of users tell me that his plugin made all the difference and that it was soo much faster.

As for keeping objects apart, we recently had a research sprint in which one of the devs greatly improved the keep object apart code.
Because noone uses auto render for 3d, autorender for premiere video editing and even motion from apple doesn't do it and allows you to disable/enable auto generated effects.

I also don't understand what's the fixation of UM Cura boss to make it a forced option.

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Re: Cura 2.3.1

Post by Neotko » January 20th, 2017, 6:39 am

Also @nallath IF UM really wants to make slicing faster, just make a small linux box of 100€ with Cura inside. While heating all the machines there's plenty of minutes to slice anything. Send the heat bed/nozzle and start slicing.

There's plenty of stuff going on when one slices, and if the idea is to make it 'automagical' make a fast slice preview to show basic errors of first lines (so no need to autoslice everything everytime) and let the user decide if want to send it to the machine, at that moment you slice.

There are plenty of ways to make things faster, but from an user point of view, autostuff doesn't help. And if the objective of Cura is to make print/click, then ok, separate the TWO things. Easy mode, auto slice. ADVANCED, autoslice off. Or just change the name ADVANCED to 'We know better'.

Sorry been running more and more disturbed at UM in general this last weeks. So I might be a bit over aggressive on this post. Ok back to work, cya

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Re: Cura 2.3.1

Post by nallath » January 20th, 2017, 9:40 am

The 100 linux box won't be faster. You need fast single cores that don't do shortcuts. ARM processors take shortcuts, so even if clock speed is the same, their effective speed is lower. They also tend to lack the RAM needed to do tons of slicing. We've thought of this, but it just doesn't work.

I also think that "Other people don't do it" is the worst argument to do something. Other companies are closed source, so should we close off the source code? Exactly ;)

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Re: Cura 2.3.1

Post by Neotko » January 20th, 2017, 9:56 am

What i mean by other companies I mean companies that actually pay big chunks of money focusing on User Interface and they actually run test with humans. Also Slic3r allows that too.

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Re: Cura 2.3.1

Post by LePaul » January 20th, 2017, 10:08 am

I don't understand why Cura dev/Ultimaker is so opposed to giving users what they want. That autoslice has many complaints. As Nilrog mentioned, I don't have to deal with such nonsense in my Adobe Premiere Elements work, SolidWorks and other programs that are cpu/gpu intensive.

Why make us do it "your" way when we want it "ours" :) (Unless you like giving S3D business?)

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Re: Cura 2.3.1

Post by nallath » January 20th, 2017, 10:37 am

Because you are a convenience sampled set of opinions. There are 10 people that one this, but you are not a good representation of the average user. You are a good representation of about 10% of the user base. It's good / interesting to listen to what you have to say, but it's simply not enough to immediately do what you guys ask.

I do understand that there is something called perceived value. Disabling auto slicing will increase this for you (as it won't actually ya know, do something).

Also note that just because I'm being the interface here, does not mean it's my decision. I'm slightly against removing it, as i'm rather convinced (based on profiling) that there is no issue to fix. I'm not that against it to be very vocal about it within Ultimaker. I don't make the call what gets done and what doesn't. That's what our product owner / manager does.

If we have to do what every user tells us, we wouldn't even -have- Cura. Back when David started with it, he got hate mail from all over the place because "The market in slicing was crowded enough as is" and "You're destorying the open source 3D printing". Look where we are now. It's getting a bit tiresome that people seem to think just because that something doesn't get done that people don't care. I do care.

Constantly bringing it up also gets a bit of a nagging vibe, also doesn't hel (and using 'emotional blackmail' (Its a bit of a strong word for it, but i couldn't think of a lesser way to describe it) like 'I dont understand why devs don't give us what we want' is also the kind of "convincing" that will only make people dig their heels in the sand.

The problem is not the slicing. Its a symptom. That being said, I do expect that we will disable auto slicing at some point due to multi threaded support.

ps. Read this in the nicest way possible.

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Re: Cura 2.3.1

Post by Neotko » January 20th, 2017, 11:12 am

10% I thought I was on the 1%. Anyhow keep the good work, cura has a ton of good stuff, and way too much control over the user even in advanced mode. Autoslice I don't like nither see the use of having the computer going too hot in less than a minute. But all the hidden settings, the options only accessible by editing json files and stuff like that, is what I see as a problem. But hey 10% doesn't buy printers right?

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Re: Cura 2.3.1

Post by Neotko » January 20th, 2017, 11:14 am

I was trying to be nice but certainly I can't today. Will leave forums for a couple days. Need a break from nonsenses.

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Re: Cura 2.3.1

Post by LePaul » January 20th, 2017, 11:59 am

Hi Nallath

What? We aren't the most important voices? :) :D

I understand the point you make. I used to be a tester for a software company, so I understand when everyone's wish is the most important in their mind.

There's a lot of things Cura does well.

Hopefully the devs can find some common ground on the handful of us here, and on Ultimaker.com, that would like to have control on when the software slices.

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Re: Cura 2.3.1

Post by Anders Olsson » January 21st, 2017, 9:38 am

First of all, I realize that you are not free to do what you want or what we want, nallath. So read the following as a suggestion from me, not a complaint :-)

Regarding the Autoslicing, in my case I simply would like to be able to pause slicing because Cura can become very sluggish and annoying to use when I am changing parameters and the autoslicing constantly restarts.
It is even worse in new Cura in some sense, since the issue becomes worse when you have lots of things on the build plate and the the multiply object-function does not arrange the objects on the build plate in new Cura as it did in old Cura. So one has to drag the objects one by one to a suitable spot, constantly interrupted by lagging from autoslicing and that annoying auto-zoom function.

In my mind, just a simple "pause slicing"-button next to the Save-button would be adequate. Pausing slicing should disable the save-function and other automagical stuff like auto-zoom too, so one can relax and set the parameters without being interrupted.
I realize that it probably would require quite some programming to implement this, but having that function certainly would make Cura more efficient and less annoying to use. I also don't see any real disadvantages with such option, even for basic users.
Actually, the auto slicing is the most common complaint that I had from people who are new to Cura trying to do something more advanced, so I think Ultimaker might be underestimating how annoying people think autoslicing can be.

Then, if you are out of ideas :-) I would really like a quick way to get the old Cura speed settings back since the variable speed in new Cura causes trouble for me with infill. Just a "constant speed" check-box in the speed settings would be enough, with a simple explanation like for the other functions.

And as I mentioned before, the auto scale is also quite dangerous and not always reliable.
A pop-up box where you have to confirm before it auto-scales, or even better, no automagical stuff but a separate "auto-scale" button instead, would be much better and safer in my mind.

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