Heated bed adhesion

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Izzy
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Heated bed adhesion

Postby Izzy » May 9th, 2016, 10:36 am

Hi Guys,
For printing with ABS what is your recommendations for the bed, GLue stick, hairspray or, ABS gunk. If ABS gunk, how do you make yours etc.

I've been printing for 18 months with PLA but just starting to test with ABS, I've had a few prints break free :oops:
Izzy.

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Amedee
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Re: Heated bed adhesion

Postby Amedee » May 9th, 2016, 10:48 am

I don't have extensive experience with ABS, I think others know better than I do, but here is my feedback:

- ABS gunk, works, but acetone fumes are killing me...
- Hairspray is still my favorite (with the girls at home, always easy to find some leftovers)
- Not too much success with glue stick, but I believe mine is cursed (see my Nylon post)
- Given the success I had with PVA based glue with Nylon, I'll probably try that next time I do ABS
Phil.

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Izzy
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Re: Heated bed adhesion

Postby Izzy » May 9th, 2016, 2:16 pm

Hi Amedee, is that PVA wood glue or craft PVA glue, and do you water it down etc. What do you do? :geek:
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Re: Heated bed adhesion

Postby Amedee » May 9th, 2016, 2:49 pm

It is supposed to be craft PVA glue, but I used wood glue :roll:

I put a bit of glue in a bowl (about a tea spoon) and water it down (using a wet craft brush) -- you don't need a lot of water, dipping the brush once, max twice in the water is more than enough.

Then apply the glue with the brush on the cold plate, like you would apply paint on a wall: you don't want to have a thick layer, just having a small film. When it's dry you barely see it.
I don't have a picture, but when you look at this video can still see it.


To cleanup the plate, I just use warm water.
Phil.

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Re: Heated bed adhesion

Postby danilius » May 9th, 2016, 3:50 pm

I heat up the glass to around 50C and apply UHU stic, and sometimes I apply it cold when the glass is out of the machine because its easier to see where the glue has been applied, and have not really seen a difference. When the bed cools down, getting prints off is a bit tricky, so I use a blunt watchmakers case knife to lever the prints off, or if it's something delicate I run hottish water over the glass (yup, inside the printer - OK, kidding) and then the glue dissolves. When in a hurry a good thumping works just as well, but probably does the machine no good, so only use the last technique when in a hurry.

Cleanup involves warm water and a sponge.

A single coating of UHU stic (tried other brands/unbranded and they did not work well at all) can last around a week although I have used a coating for much longer than that, and every part of the glass is reusable. For prints where I'm not inclined to take a risk I clean the glass and apply a fresh coat.

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Re: Heated bed adhesion

Postby reibuehl » May 10th, 2016, 3:48 am

I still use the Staples glue stick that came with my UM2. Like @danilius, I also tend to re-use the glue layer for a number of prints and clean / apply a new coat for prints where I don't want to take a risk.
To remove the prints that do not come off by themselves when cooling down, I usually use a utility knife with the blade all the way out or a scraper. Sometimes I cool down the parts a little more by spraying on the part with a compressed air can upside down or some ice spray.
Reiner.

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Re: Heated bed adhesion

Postby Izzy » May 11th, 2016, 2:53 am

Cheers guys, I've been trying to find a post for the ABS gunk but no joy so far.
I use some artist pallet knifes to remove prints, a pack only costs a few euros, but the are thin and flexable and great for freeing prints.
Izzy.

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Re: Heated bed adhesion

Postby Izzy » May 31st, 2016, 5:36 pm

I've been trying differs things with various results, managed to find the ' ABS Juice' it's approximatly 100ml of acetone and 12cm of 3mm filament.
I tried with some nail varnish remove acetone but apparently this ha additives in and so may not work, I will see about getting a small amount of acetone from DIY store and trying again.
Izzy.

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Re: Heated bed adhesion

Postby Amedee » May 31st, 2016, 6:09 pm

I'll try to re-print my fan shroud in ABS, and I'll see how it goes with the PVA glue.
The advantage of the PVA glue is that it is very easy to clean.

I accidentally printed PLA with a very thin layer of PVA glue on the plate, and I really struggled to get my print off the plate, I thought the glass would delaminate... :roll:
Phil.

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Re: Heated bed adhesion

Postby danilius » June 1st, 2016, 5:34 am

Another thing to bear in mind is that ABS warps like crazy, so bed adhesion needs to consist of more than just what's on the glass. You have to take the geometry into consideration. So, use around 10 lines in a brim, and use "mouse ears" in suitable locations that you trim off afterwards. Also, don't try printing something like a pyramid upside down, because you will have little or no adhesion from the supports. You need plenty of the model in contact with the glass. Sometimes I add some more geometry just to keep the model in place during the print and remove it afterwards.

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Re: Heated bed adhesion

Postby Izzy » June 1st, 2016, 5:04 pm

Cheers Guys for the tips, I managed to get some decent acetone from the chemist, a 50ml bottle, added 6cm of white 3mm ABS and alowed to dissolve.
I agree about the adding of a good size brim, I have also used some scotch magic tape for a thin brim which helped.
I was trying to get the fans right, none for the very bottom layers but you need it for over hands and delacate bits. Will happily take advice from those more experienced in printing with ABS. :-)
Izzy.

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Re: Heated bed adhesion

Postby danilius » June 2nd, 2016, 1:48 pm

Izzy wrote:Cheers Guys for the tips, I managed to get some decent acetone from the chemist, a 50ml bottle, added 6cm of white 3mm ABS and alowed to dissolve.


If you've got some vodka handy, then you can use your quality acetone to spice it up a little. Or perhaps not.

Izzy wrote:I agree about the adding of a good size brim, I have also used some scotch magic tape for a thin brim which helped.
I was trying to get the fans right, none for the very bottom layers but you need it for over hands and delacate bits. Will happily take advice from those more experienced in printing with ABS. :-)


Cooling is hassle with ABS. You really have to check each part of your model to see whether it needs cooling or not. There is no easy way to tell. Basically, you will learn by experience just how thin you can go without cooling. Also, really thin long walls (say a u-shaped tube with 0.4mm walls, 30mm x 30mm) will warp like nothing you have seen before. Very beautiful, but utterly useless.


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