UM2 print head project

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gudo
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Re: UM2 print head project

Post by gudo » October 2nd, 2016, 10:29 am

HI to all
@ Drayson : " is this possible to be machined with this material?? "
Yes it is !
PBI can be machined as the inox steel machining process
For getting a compact & easy access print head I redrew it in 3 main parts : the XY carriage , the PBI hot end support and the articulated cooling fan set , here my final working print head : PLATEC print parts

Image

I machined the PBI hot end support from a 19.05 mm rod (Plasticstockist source), I think that would work as well if it's machined from a 12.7mm rod
cad images :

Image

The Olsson bloc is screwed directely on the PBI support end tip, then this one is screwed on the XY support, it's adjusted in the right orientation then it's locked by the M12x1 threaded ring.
Finaly, the articulated fan set is slided by the back side on the XY carriage, no screws used !

Image

Since my PBI print head works I forget all the different known UM issues, may be that would be different in hard professional uses, I don't know :roll:

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LePaul
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Re: UM2 print head project

Post by LePaul » October 2nd, 2016, 2:32 pm

Very. Very impressive

Iltacitoduca
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Re: UM2 print head project

Post by Iltacitoduca » October 11th, 2016, 3:55 am

drayson wrote:PS: I hate those drawings released by Ultimaker - those are so unusefull for machining - no tolerances, no propper measures,...
Hi Drayson,
Yes, it's true! They are almost completely useless !
And it is shameful that a device marketed as Open-source in reality it is not at all! :-(

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Meduza
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Re: UM2 print head project

Post by Meduza » October 11th, 2016, 4:08 am

Releasing production drawings would imho be a crazy move business wise... It would only help a very select few users, and the ones that would be jumping up and down of happiness would be a bunch of asian clone manufacturers who do not care at all about licenses and -NC clauses but only about selling cheap clones and making loads of money without spending anything on R&D...

gudo
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Re: UM2 print head project

Post by gudo » October 11th, 2016, 4:44 am

Meduza wrote:Releasing production drawings would imho be a crazy move business wise... It would only help a very select few users, and the ones that would be jumping up and down of happiness would be a bunch of asian clone manufacturers who do not care at all about licenses and -NC clauses but only about selling cheap clones and making loads of money without spending anything on R&D...
Hi to all
Meduza ,I agree with you
I spent six months in one of these Asian countries for a job and I have seen with my own eyes that they are able to make in 1 week :-o every means possible to start a mass production thanks to the copy .

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LePaul
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Re: UM2 print head project

Post by LePaul » October 11th, 2016, 9:43 am

That's why I discourage people from buying any rip-offs or cheap parts from them. Why reward that behavior

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Izzy
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Re: UM2 print head project

Post by Izzy » October 11th, 2016, 10:00 am

I agree, I refuse to buy cheap clones, they don't care about the user just money for them selves.
The materials and build quality are poor at best, I wanted a quality machine and with a true UM2 is what I purchased and got.
Ok so mine is a little pimped now :lol: and getting a little more so shortly, but I am really really pleased with the machine and its capabilities.
Ask some one "would you buy a cheap Chinese parachute? No! Why's that? So why buy the other knock offs?"
Izzy.

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LePaul
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Re: UM2 print head project

Post by LePaul » October 11th, 2016, 10:19 am

I agree with your points, about quality.

But I also want to deny them the rewards for making a cheap knock-off. This hurts the real vendors who have invested time, research, resources and support their products. I know everyone wants the cheapest price possible. But the 3D printing world is a small universe and I want to help them out !

nallath
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Re: UM2 print head project

Post by nallath » October 11th, 2016, 10:51 am

Open sourcing a design is something completely different as open sourcing your production. We don't tell people who we buy our stuff from, nor do we tell you what engineers built it or how our assembly lines actually build the machine.

The CC-NC licence hardly protects us anyway, as copyright only allows you to protect works of art (So only design choices made because of looks, not design choices made because of technical reasons). So as long as you remove some obvious Ultimaker look things and the logo, those Chinese companies are well within their legal right to create "knock-offs".

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drayson
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Re: UM2 print head project

Post by drayson » October 11th, 2016, 5:00 pm

Guys, sorry for being so emotional about the drawings but it was really horrible to take apart my UMO to just crosscheck the dimensions...

Anyway - I agree that open all manufacturing details would be a headshot as it would make it much more easy to copy/clone.
So I think I will start porting the step files from github and modify/dimension the parts acc to my measurements in case I need some base for reproduction/modding e.g....

Iltacitoduca
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Re: UM2 print head project

Post by Iltacitoduca » October 12th, 2016, 4:20 am

drayson wrote:Guys, sorry for being so emotional about the drawings but it was really horrible to take apart my UMO to just crosscheck the dimensions...

Anyway - I agree that open all manufacturing details would be a headshot as it would make it much more easy to copy/clone.
So I think I will start porting the step files from github and modify/dimension the parts acc to my measurements in case I need some base for reproduction/modding e.g....
You have just expressed yourself.. .I don't think you need to excuse with someone.
Your statement is true
The choice of Ultimaker was not imposed by no-one.
They have chosen their market line...
So, if they had / have or are so afraid of losing money because of Chinese companies, they can say: sorry customers, we can not disclose our plans / drawings / other. But publish things that are not related with what they say / or sell ... at my house, it's called cheating. ;-)

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Izzy
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Re: UM2 print head project

Post by Izzy » October 12th, 2016, 3:45 pm

At the end of the day if they want to rip it off they would just buy one, strip it down and measure and document everything to then get the all the info.
The only people that will stop them is those that dont buy their rip offs, if we didn't buy them it wouldn't be worth their effort and money to rip them off.
The Anders block is available on eBay from China, we all know the hard R&D effort that was put into it and the new ruby nozzle, would anybody here really buy one! I for one will stay loyal and get quality components only from direct from 3dsolex or his linked official suppliers.
Izzy.

Iltacitoduca
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Re: UM2 print head project

Post by Iltacitoduca » October 13th, 2016, 4:22 am

Izzy wrote:At the end of the day if they want to rip it off they would just buy one, strip it down and measure and document everything to then get the all the info.
The only people that will stop them is those that dont buy their rip offs, if we didn't buy them it wouldn't be worth their effort and money to rip them off.
The Anders block is available on eBay from China, we all know the hard R&D effort that was put into it and the new ruby nozzle, would anybody here really buy one! I for one will stay loyal and get quality components only from direct from 3dsolex or his linked official suppliers.
You got it Izzy! So if you share wrong or imprecise or even fake design/project you just damage your loyalty customers!

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drayson
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Re: UM2 print head project

Post by drayson » October 13th, 2016, 8:17 am

gudo wrote:HI to all
@ Drayson : " is this possible to be machined with this material?? "
Yes it is !
PBI can be machined as the inox steel machining process
For getting a compact & easy access print head I redrew it in 3 main parts : the XY carriage , the PBI hot end support and the articulated cooling fan set , here my final working print head : PLATEC print parts
Since my PBI print head works I forget all the different known UM issues, may be that would be different in hard professional uses, I don't know :roll:
Yesterday I had the strong feeling that I need to order a 19,05mm PBI rod...
Finally I canceled and need to get back to my "commanding officer" to get addidional budget as it has been priced incl. VAT and shipping to app. 340€... Phu... damn expensive for two pc. of PEEK and PTFE replacements...

gudo
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Re: UM2 print head project

Post by gudo » October 13th, 2016, 9:32 am

Hi Drayson
Yes it's very very expensive :twisted:
as I said 12.7mm rod would be sufficient & less expensive,
if you really want test, purchase it ! I'll redeem you the rest ;-)

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